DirectShow Filter for x264 decoding?

[3ngel]

Hi to all,
i would like to start using x264, but i know the only way to decode is through FFDDShow.
I don't like FFDShow, and i don't want to install it. There is any other known DSFilter that can decode an x264 stream?
Or pheraps there is some nice volunteer, that can do a little .ax filter porting from the x264 source? :)
Thank you :)

[Doom9]

There is any other known DSFilter that can decode an x264 stream?Nero's filters can handle AVC content.. it may be restricted to AVC in MP4 though.

[Caroliano]

You can use VLC, that is a player not based in directshow... Or see the fixed topic of Bond about decoders. Why you don't like FFDShow?

[foxyshadis]

FFdshow is the official decoder of x264, the devs of x264 help maintain its AVC decoder. It's not too hard to disable decoding of everything else through it.

[3ngel]

@Doom9
Nero's filters can handle AVC content.. it may be restricted to AVC in MP4 though.Mmm... yes pheraps you're right, but it's possible that it can function... but damn from bad to worste :(

@Caroliano
You can use VLC, that is a player not based in directshowThanks, but i like my MPC ;)

Why you don't like FFDShow?I don't like monolithic things, too complex, from wich i don't use 99% of the things.

@foxyshadis
It's not too hard to disable decoding of everything else through it See my reply to Caroliano :)

Well, at this point i think x264 will have a one user less :(

Sometimes ago, i read a user that did an x264 DirectShow filter Compressor based on the source... pheraps if he reads this topic he can do even the decompressor? :)

[Doom9]

Sometimes ago, i read a user that did an x264 DirectShow filter Compressor based on the source... pheraps if he reads this topic he can do even the decompressor?Where? x264 doesn't include the decompression code.. that's where ffdshow enters the picture.

[Yong]

i think 3ngel is talking about this one:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103615&highlight=t264

[Manao]

I don't like monolithic things, too complex, from wich i don't use 99% of the things.Huh ? You mean that seriously ? FFDShow implements the fastest ASP decoder, the only open source AVC decoder ( at the moment ), can additionnaly decode most audio format, and is now almost the only decoder needed on a computer. Not using it would imho be a mistake, especially for the reasons you put forward ( by the way, isn't windows monolithic ? )

[[)370|\|470!2]

I agree with 3ngel, there should be an independent ds filter for decoding avc.
Or bundled with x264 package, for common sense's sake :D

[3ngel]

@Doom9
Where? x264 doesn't include the decompression code.. that's where ffdshow enters the pictureOh, i see. Then someone can take the FFDShow part regarding the x264 decoder and make a separate filter?

@Manao
Huh ? You mean that seriously ? FFDShow implements the fastest ASP decoder..but in my opinion the crappiest one regarding decoding quality. The best remain the ND decoder
the only open source AVC decoder ( at the moment )Unfortunately
can additionnaly decode most audio formatI have already the best decoders for the audio i use (ac3filter, moonlight and so on)

and is now almost the only decoder needed on a computerSpeak for yourself :)

isn't windows monolithic?Infact i don't like windows either :)

@[)370|\|470!2
Obviously i agree with you :)

[Doom9]

Oh, i see. Then someone can take the FFDShow part regarding the x264 decoder and make a separate filter?Yes.. how about... YOU!! ?? Open source isn't about bugging somebody to do what you want, it's about you doing what you want so if you want that decoder, get coding...

[3ngel]

Yes.. how about... YOU!! ?? Open source isn't about bugging somebody to do what you want, it's about you doing what you want so if you want that decoder, get coding
I don't think it's needed to warm up yourself...
I'm not bugging anyone, i was doing simple a normal proposal in a kind way, that someone can even find useful and can accept.
If I was able to code properly, you're sure i would make it by myself.
So i repeat, i think it's unopportune you get that bad. That's a forum and we are talking, don't we?

[futurex]

stop being so picky. disable ffdshow's decoding for everything but x264.

[foxyshadis]

Seriously, how difficult is it to install ffdshow, uncheck everything except MPEG-4 AVC on install, and never have to worry about it again? You don't have to use the ungodly complexity of the filter, I certainly don't. You don't have to decode anything else with it.

If it's a religious difference with all-in-ones, then fine, whatever.

[CruNcher]

Unfortunately

There is a CoreAVC Direcshow Filter announced that would be one free different possibility to ffdshow. But keep in mind the more different Filter you have on your Windows system registered the more problematic the whole decoding stuff can get. Directshow is a error magnet per excelance in that regard.


..but in my opinion the crappiest one regarding decoding quality. The best remain the ND decoder

Can you prove that statement ?

[3ngel]

@foxyshadis
Seriously, how difficult is it to install ffdshow, uncheck everything except MPEG-4 AVC on install, and never have to worry about it again?No, not so much (even if i don't like the FFDShow philosophy), but you know, if no one proposes alternative ideas we would be stuck at the beginning of everything :)

@CruNcher
There is a CoreAVC Direcshow Filter announcedGood to know.

Can you prove that statement ?Not atm, but at the time i did extensive tests with ASP decoding with FFDShow and ND. If i have time i'll redo the test (but it's a little complicated 'cause ND is damn hard to make going on non-.mp4 files) and post some pictures.

[Sharktooth]

@Manao
..but in my opinion the crappiest one regarding decoding quality. The best remain the ND decoder

Prove it. Your assumptions are completely false and show your complete ignorance regarding the whole argument.
Still you praise you "know it all" and pretend something from other but you are not able to do it by yourself.
Blah...
I don't think it's needed to warm up yourself...
I'm not bugging anyone, i was doing simple a normal proposal in a kind way, that someone can even find useful and can accept.
If I was able to code properly, you're sure i would make it by myself.
So i repeat, i think it's unopportune you get that bad. That's a forum and we are talking, don't we?
Oh... well, you started bashing and even pretend to "talk"...
Not atm, but at the time i did extensive tests with ASP decoding with FFDShow and ND. If i have time i'll redo the test (but it's a little complicated 'cause ND is damn hard to make going on non-.mp4 files) and post some pictures.
Sure you cant. If there are differences it means you dont KNOW how to set up ffdshow properly.
The complete lack of knowledge makes your "tests" completely useless.
Come back when you read some papers on standards. ppl like you spreading false words are not welcome.
Also :readrule:. Searching the forum before you speak is a "must do" in your case.

[3ngel]

Prove it.As i've said in the prev post, as i've time i'll do it (or you don't have the eyes to read?)

Your assumptions are completely false and show your complete ignorance regarding the whole argument. Still you praise you "know it all" and pretend something from other but you are not able to do it by yourself.That is YOUR opinion, and YOU are pretending things and offending. Pretending and offending is the first sign of total ignorance. Think about it :)

Oh... well, you started bashing and even pretend to "talk"...The only one bashing until now is you.

Sure you cant. If there are differences it means you dont KNOW how to set up ffdshow properly.Or if that means that you can be too blind to see the differences or you have a too crap monitor :)

Searching the forum before you speak is a "must do" in your case.And connecting the brain to the mouth is a "must do" in yours.

Anyway (to avoid misunderstandings and be OT) was (and is not) not my intention to discuss about the FFDShow (ASP) quality decoding.
Damn, i was only asking a simple filter to decode x264 :)

[futurex]

well said sharktooth

ffdshow is an excellent piece of work, anybody who says it outputs inferior quality needs to check their settings/computer.

[Sharktooth]

@3ngel: My brain is well connected.
Come back when you read some papers on the mpeg-4 STANDARD.
"Standards" are called with that name for a reason...
If i decode h.264 with any decoder the result will be the same if the decoder is standard compliant. Since ffdshow's h.264 decoding is done thru libavcodec (thats standard compliant) it will be exacly the same as ND or any other standard compliant decoder (except for post-processing... but if you enabled post processing on h.264 that's your fault... it doesnt need it).
If you get different output that's YOUR fault.
Now, connect YOUR brain to your mouth before even think to speak.

[foxyshadis]

Bond has done pretty extensive decoding tests and found that the only difference in AVC decoders is (with the exception bugs) decoding speed. Although I think it was Ateme's that has the option of turning inloop off on non-ref frames (or just skipping them) if it's falling behind on decoding.

Unfortunately ASP can be wildly different because of different IDCTs and especially different levels and types of post-processing. Use whatever post-processing is most pleasing to you, but that doesn't make it "best" or others "crappier". If you compared the two without any post-processing you'd probably find they were identical.

3vix's decoder is currently baseline-level, which means it only supports roughly what quicktime does. But it will probably support the full range when it's released, sometime in January.

Christ, why the flamewars and insults over something like this. You're easy to bait, Sharktooth.

Your question has been answered: FFdshow est l'un décodeur disponible pour Directshow. Take it or leave it.

[Sharktooth]

in FFDShow you can always select what type of IDCT to use and as i said "post processing excluded"...
so if ffdshow decoding looks like crap then it's the user's fault.
The insults, however, started here: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=758829#post758829

[[)370|\|470!2]

FFDShow has postprocessing option enabled by default wich is ridiculous imo,
since main goal of using it is to decode avc, and there's no hints which may help
you figure it by yourself. Hopefully, a new xvid is about to be released soon enough,
and hence there will be an FFDshow Alternative :DDD

[Sharktooth]

well, that's a valid point indeed but that's not a big problem coz the newest releases have PP enabled on h.264 ONLY if your h.264 encode has inloop deblocking disabled.

[bond]

obviously there is a sticky in this forum which compares the available avc directshow decoders, which of course also decode x264, as written in my sticky

Nero's filters can handle AVC content.. it may be restricted to AVC in MP4 though.i wouldnt recommend using a dshow filter that is limited in a way it only works in its own player: nero showtime

ffdshow is free, works in every dshow player and is faster than nero

Bond has done pretty extensive decoding tests and found that the only difference in AVC decoders is (with the exception bugs) decoding speed. not true at all, read again the comparison...

[raymod2]

I don't like ffdshow either. I've noticed that people are always having to upgrade it because every now and then an XviD file surfaces that it can't play properly. I've never run across an XviD file the XviD decoder couldn't handle. Also ffdshow can't decode AAC properly. It garbles the audio unless you go digging through the configuration options and change the decoder from libfaad2 to realacc. Finally, it is a valid argument that the filter tries to do too much. It reminds me of the "mega codec packs" that have caused so much grief for so many people. I find it odd that x264 doesn't come with a decoder.

[foxyshadis]

not true at all, read again the comparison...
I know they all support different feature subsets, I meant how the output of each decoder would be the same for a supported video. Sorry I confused that.

[Isochroma]

Here's a good reason to not use ffdshow for any decoding; click on the image to flip between the two decoders:

http://isochroma.com/Testfiles/Comparisons/Colors-1.htm

Everything ffdshow decodes, in all rendering modes, shows this difference including h.264. Pale washed-out video which clearly has compressed luma and probably chroma range.

This problem is exhibited with two different video cards (GF MX440 and FX5200) and on different machines as well. Because it is hardware-independant, and only shows with certain decoders, I have reason to believe it is related to the details of implementation in these DS filters.

Other video decoders which exhibit the same colorspace problem are:

CorePNG decoder filter
DivX decoder filter (all versions)
Indeo
WMV decoder filter
XviD decoder filter (all versions)

Some filters render video correctly; these are:

AVIzlib
Huffyuv
Lagarith
Microsoft DV Video Decoder
MSU Lossless
Nero Decoder

[Manao]

Although I think it was Ateme's that has the option of turning inloop off on non-ref frames (or just skipping them) if it's falling behind on decoding.Mmm, no. Actually, what you can do is show the undeblocked frame ( while using the deblocked one as reference ), which is quite good if you don't like deblocking yet still want to profit from the efficiency gain it brings. What you're refering to ( possibility not to apply deblocking ) is a possibility offered by FFDshow / libavcodec.
In FFDShow you can always select what type of IDCT to useBut that is definitely not user friendly. However, libavcodec ( and hence ffdshow ) does select automatically the correct IDCT if it knows which one it should use ( hence, if it has a fourcc, so if the file is in an AVI ). So it's quite safe concerning the IDCT.

However, lots of people have issue with the overlay settings of their graphic cards, which sometimes lead them to blame FFDShow for the quality when the fault lies in the overlay ( or its absence ).
I've noticed that people are always having to upgrade it because every now and then an XviD file surfaces that it can't play properly.Wrong. The problem is that when people search for FFDShow, they find the sourceforge download page, which is totally outdated. But they don't know that, and they end up downloading a 3 years old version.
Also ffdshow can't decode AAC properly. It garbles the audio unless you go digging through the configuration options and change the decoder from libfaad2 to realaccI didn't know that. Did you fill a bug report ? ( because since ffdshow does everything, testing that everything works properly is quite impossible for milan ).
Finally, it is a valid argument that the filter tries to do too much.It could be. But the thing is, it implements ffmpeg/libavcodec, which itself can do a lot of good things. Would you prefer to have several filters all using the same library, while not using all that the library offers. That would need a lot of code redundancy, a bigger size, and in the end, from the coder's point of view : more code, more bugs, and less maintanability.
It reminds me of the "mega codec packs" that have caused so much grief for so many people.Not at all. The grief these packs caused was mainly brought by the total havoc they created in the directshow configuration of the user. FFDShow, in that regard, is the best filter ever.
I find it odd that x264 doesn't come with a decoder.That's because developpers don't like to code twice the same thing. There was an embryon of a h264 decoder in libavcodec when fenrir started to work on x264. So whenever he implemented a feature in x264, he assured that libavcodec was able to decode it. He maintaned, at the beginning, an independant decoder in x264, but quickly dropped it. When pengvado continued his works, he also maintained libavcodec up to date, and hence didn't feel the need to code everything twice, which is quite understandable.

Edit : isochroma, what you show is typically an overlay issue. Play a little with the option 'use overlay mixer' in the 'Output' section of FFDshow.

[Isochroma]

Regarding modes, the problem is exhibited in all modes regardless of hardware, and is also shown by other directshow filters. But another set of DS filters works correctly.

The problem lies in how the filter is implemented. Can anyone here provide like I have a pair of screenshots showing identical and correct color decoding between ffdshow and any of the codecs listed in the previous post as functioning correct? The huffyuv decoder and Nero are both well-proven to work correctly.

[Revgen]

FFDShow isn't perfect though. VLC Player and TCMP tends to be faster at decoding while not being as robust as FFDShow. TCMP especially.

For example the 1920x1080 The Greatest Game trailer plays slow on FFDshow while playing great on TCMP.

However FFDshow supports more features (CQM etc.) than the others do. It also has more sharpeners, noise reducers, and other features to improve the picture.

As long as you play DVD resolution AVC videos, FFDShow is the best free decoder out there.

TCMP is starting to catch up though.

[The Link]

Hi to all,
i would like to start using x264, but i know the only way to decode is through FFDDShow.
I don't like FFDShow, and i don't want to install it. There is any other known DSFilter that can decode an x264 stream?
Or pheraps there is some nice volunteer, that can do a little .ax filter porting from the x264 source? :)
Thank you :)
From here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=104277):
A few days ago Picard released a basic AVC test decoder for TCPMP. Currently it is for TCPMP only... but Toff is going to do a DS filter for it...

[[)370|\|470!2]

However FFDshow supports more features (CQM etc.)

Since when it supports CQM??? IIrc, it doesn't(yet).

[Sharktooth]

it does.

[3ngel]

@raymod2
Finally, it is a valid argument that the filter tries to do too much. It reminds me of the "mega codec packs" that have caused so much grief for so many people. I find it odd that x264 doesn't come with a decoder.Yes, exactly! Well said ;)

@Isochroma
Here's a good reason to not use ffdshow for any decoding; click on the image to flip between the two decoders:

http://isochroma.com/Testfiles/Comparisons/Colors-1.htmYOU ARE THE MAN!!
Your test comparison shows EXACTLY what i was talking about!
If i would do the test by myself i would show the same results :)
Great indeed! :cool:

[foxyshadis]

Isochroma, 3ngel, many video card drivers have the incredibly annoying tendency to display YUV data (16-240) directly, rather than translating to 0-255. Switching between different overlay, VMR7, and VMR9 modes is almost guaranteed to change the results you get, as well as different colorspace outputs. That's what Manao was saying. If some filters look better on yours, it's because they match your card's idea of which modes should be expanded, which unfortunately may be exactly the opposite for others.

FFdshow also has a "luma fix" in its postprocessing that should never be used as it causes that to happen as well.

[bond]

either your guys make a bug report on the ffdshows bug tracker once you think you have found a bug or you code a better tool yourself

just flaming other peoples hard work, given to you for free and totally unlimited, is not enough :sly:

[Manao]

Check the following screenshots, taken on my computer :

http://manao4.free.fr/yuv.jpg
http://manao4.free.fr/rgb.jpg

The overlay was already taken by another player when I took those screenshots. For the first screenshot, I used the following 'Output' configuration in FFDShow :

http://manao4.free.fr/yuv.png

And the following for the second :

http://manao4.free.fr/rgb.png

[3ngel]

@foxyshadis
I understand what are you saying and that can be correct. But apart from the incorrect-color (that pheraps can be corrected as Manao says), my impression at the time i did the test (and even from the picture posted now) is that FFDshow decoding is kinda dirt (not in the sense of visible noise but as overrall impression) compared to the glass-looking of ND. But on this i can't garantee 'cause i've not done a test according to Manao's setting.

@bond
Here noone is flaming noone. Are you a little susceptible? :)
I can say that the working of FFDShow on so much routines is appreciable, and i'm not cricizing it, but from my point of view i don't like this philosophy of programming.
If you read my first post of this thread i have simply said "I don't like FFDShow, and i don't want to install, there is another decoder"? Dot.
I haven't done any comment of my thoughts about FFDShow. Only later when the post is offtopiced i've said what i thougt, and only because someone asked me "Why you don't like FFDShow", in contrary case I would have said nothing.
So this is definetively not flaming, but only expressing my thoughs.

[Sirber]

@Manao

I kinda like more the second shot :)

What's the recommended colorspace for ATI?

[CruNcher]

@[)370|\|470!2
@3ngel

1. i find guys with l33t names suspicius ;)
2. I don't like guys who pretend the insight out of something but in reallity they have no idea of what they talking
3. Finaly i don't like guys they start because of this dangerous unawareness to bash something and spread missinformation to others and you two doing exactly that right now, so please stop it for gods sake.

Btw why do you use the outdated VMR7 anyway if you want to watch your anime with subtittles use VMR9 renderless instead.

[3ngel]

@CruNcher
1) I don't like guys who pretends things are known and fixed only because " Well, all the others say this, so it have to be right for sure"
2) I don't like guys who don't read the posts and the evolutions of it
3) I don't like the guys who pollute a normal thread like this, with flame-firestarting phrases like yours.
All this is very sad :(

[Manao]

Sirber : it depends whether your overlay is available or not. I've got an ATI card, and the screenshots were made without the YUV overlay ( taken by another instance of the player ), hence the difference. If the overlay isn't taken, both colorspaces ( YUV and RGB ) give similar results.

And for the best shot, it's indeed better, on the character. The backgrounds t which you don't see ) seems actually better without the overlay, though it may be my tastes in the matter that are deficient :)

Edit :that FFDshow decoding is kinda dirtIf it's AVC, it isn't. If it's ASP, it *might* ( very remote possibility ) be because of a wrong IDCT ( that would mean either an unknown fourcc / codec, or a container different from avi, ogm and mkv ). But most probably, the dirty look is due to the overlay thing, and that clearly can be corrected, as I showed

[Isochroma]

I finally put together a nice screenshot comparison matrix with handy linked page-cycling to illustrate how various decoders look...

http://isochroma.com/Testfiles/Comparisons/Colors/Render.htm

Strangely, ffdshow does decode one type of video and display it correctly: ZLIB! So, maybe the devs ought to check the ZLIB decoder in libavcodec and find out what the difference is...

[foxyshadis]

Did you just completely ignore the last 8 posts, Isochroma?

[3ngel]

@Manao
If it's ASP, it *might* ( very remote possibility ) be because of a wrong IDCTYes, my considerations were based on an ASP stream, but i'm not sure it's a wrong IDTC fault, but who knows.
Moreover looking at Isochroma screens-test, i can see that even on h264 decoding FFDShow decoding is clearly more "color-less-defined" and less "good detailed" than the ND decoding.
So if Isochroma has normalized the overlay problem you talked about, i think FFDShow has a real problem.
But at this point tomorrow i'm curious to install FFDShow and do myself test with VMR9 (i use) (and overlay settings) comparing to Nero.

[Isochroma]

Sorry, I didn't ignore the posts, but have been making the comparison matrix, and just posted to the end without reading!

But thanks Manao, I adjusted my ffdshow and it works correctly now, by disabling the output of all YUV colorspaces. There is still a small brightness difference between ffdshow and the Nero decoder, but otherwise they are identical.

CruNcher: I use VMR7 renderless because VMR9 crashes MPC, and the playback in VMR9 mode with subs is very slow, perhaps due to my crappy FX5200 card?

Actually in retrospect I must apologize for disturbing everyone so much... this rendering issue has bugged me for so long and I just could not find any solution. Now that this is solved, it looks like ffdshow will once again become my preferred decoder for various fourCCs.

[CruNcher]

@All
There are alot of stuff that plays a factor in this the best way is to take a Testcard encode and and manualy adjust it for your Viewing System factors that influence this are Graphic Driver (and manufacture) version of DirectX installed does another application uses the overlay window (as manao said allready) there is no general fix for this unless you use players like Mplayer, VLC or TCPMP or the Overlay in MPC that allways try to use the overlay but then you won't have your loved subtittles.
Color problems @ playback on a Windows PC on non overlay surfaces where and still are needed to be manualy adjusted for your playback enviroment nothing gonna fix that sorry. And then their is still the problem of what Standard Colorimetry your Source is in http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=82217 that will give you also some trouble if not checked correctly.

[[)370|\|470!2]

@[)370|\|470!2
@3ngel

1. i find guys with l33t names suspicius ;)

Rofl. Teh main reason for this "1337"nick was da fact that on such huge
forums most of nicknames are already taken, and i wasn't exactly in a mood
trying common nicknames for hours :D Btw, i'm familiar with this forum since 2k1,
should have been register back then, much less nicknames were busy =)

2. I don't like guys who pretend the insight out of something but in reallity they have no idea of what they talking

No flamewars, plz. :|

3. Finaly i don't like guys they start because of this dangerous unawareness to bash something and spread missinformation to others and you two doing exactly that right now, so please stop it for gods sake.

Ahem... And claiming that FFDShow 100% perfect ain't missinformation..?

[IvS]

CruNcher: I don't think VMR7 is "outdated" or whatever :) Is it really? (or you mean it's just older/"simpler") If so, then what's the disadvantages of using it? As far as I've read it's supposed to be the most stable, and for me, most important is the fact that it uses overlay so it's MUCH faster on certain things, especially HD resolutions.

[Revgen]

I never use any of the VMRx modes. I only use Overlay Mixer when I play videos with Zoomplayer. All videos look fine in this mode. I've never seen a difference between FFDshow or TCMP. Heck, last night I even tested an X264 video with both players and even compared them to the original DVD source, and all looked fine.

[Dark_Angel_PT]

CruNcher: I use VMR7 renderless because VMR9 crashes MPC, and the playback in VMR9 mode with subs is very slow, perhaps due to my crappy FX5200 card?

Actually in retrospect I must apologize for disturbing everyone so much... this rendering issue has bugged me for so long and I just could not find any solution. Now that this is solved, it looks like ffdshow will once again become my preferred decoder for various fourCCs.

VMR9 is preferable over VMR7 for various reasons. If you use MPC you should know that. I consider VMR7 inferior personally.

However, VMR9 requires DirectX9.0 installed, and your grafics card doesn't support DirectX 9.0 fully on hardware, and thats why it drags itself when you use VMR9.

I believe you are confusing things like "a problem with colorspace conversions/configuration between filters/renderes/hardware" with "a problem with ffdshow"

I remember a thread on AVSForums.com that has like 100 pages on a single matter concerning this and there are even Microsoft insiders saying this as been a mess for a long time....

[Isochroma]

I have DX 9.0c developer edition installed, and yes my card fully supports DX9, but it is slow. And when you say 7 is inferior, you may be right for some people with high-end cards, but for the majority they will never be able to use 9 in renderless mode with subtitles because of its extremely poor performance.

[3ngel]

Well, today i've done tests between latest FFDShow build and ND decoding.
Setting FFDShow as Manao's settings, the color error is gone and so the color space is the same as ND. But there is a light difference between the two concerning brightness: FFDShow shows a little more brightness compared to ND (and DVD) (a little amount but present).

@Isochroma
I use VMR9 and MPC in renderless mode and i've not seen poor performance with subtitles.

[Doom9]

Unfortunately, the brightness issue is not restricted to the decoding filter and things vary with the renderer you use and the GFX cards. Last year, taking screenshots for the codec comparison was a major PITA. This year it worked out in the default output mode (which appears to be overlay since if I open a second player, the picture is severely degraded. When I switch to VMR9 renderless, that problem is gone, but then ffdshow (and so far only it from a couple of installed decoders) displays images too bright (check the theora shots in the 2005 codec comparison qualification for a few tasty examples)). In the end, it's an evil triangle between GFX drivers, player settings and decoder settings and you just have to find the right way through the jungle. Last year, I had to redo all my shots but the source ones because the color was off.. since a different decoder was used for every source, I clearly cannot blame a specific decoder for the problem.

[Isochroma]

Which video card do you have? I'm using a generic FX5200 @ AGP8X on an Asus A7V8X with single-channel PC3200 clocked at 333 MHz, Athlon XP 2500+. It would be interesting to find out what hardware can do it well, so that I can incorporate it into future designs.

You're right about the small brightness difference...

[3ngel]

@Doom9
From what i know, i've never encountered image degradation opening more and more MPC all at the same time (rendering different streams with different codecs, or same codecs). The image is the same as if i open every stream separately (this concerning the image degradation). I'm speaking of VRM9 in any case.
Regarding the brightness question, well i don't know other codecs, but it's for sure FFDShow is brighter than ND and DVD.

@Isochroma
I use Asus A7N8X-E, Ati X800 AGP8x, VRM9, MPC, Barton 3200+, FSB 200Mhz, Nforce2 Ultra 400.

Regarding subtitles don't forget to set in MPC :
- Number of subpictures to buffer ahead : at least 10 (important)
- Maximum texture resolution : 800x600 (for a good sub quality)

[Doom9]

I use VMR9 and MPC in renderless mode That's just the combination that causes problems on my end, too. But, if I switch back to the system default, the discoloration is gone (I should know since I took a series of screenshots.. they're in the odec comparison). Try to set it back to the system default...

[Caroliano]

I don't know if I shoud ask that but: why only FFDShow has all these problems? Or he is not the only?

I can't use VMR9, so I can't open two players at same time? There is no way to fix that?