'Mercury' TV Tuner Card settings ... help please

[maxicomm]

The spec is here : http://www.mercury-pc.com/product-detail.php?link=p-addcards&subtitle=Add-On%20Cards&productid=97

Greetings one and all ...

This is my first post here as I'm a novice at this video stuff ... and before some of you start howling, "RTFM" ... I have, several times and I've searched through tons of stuff on the internet ... which is as clear as mud !

In essence I need a few pointers, in simple English, on setting this darn thing up. The Kobian help desk is a total waste of time !

OK ... here it is :

I've installed the card OK and it actually works (radio & TV) but I need a little help with the recording settings please. Can some kind soul explain/advise as to which of the following I should use when recording say from a VCR or TV or video camera (analogue):

1. Video Format ... options available are MPEG1, MPEG2, VCD (352X288), SVCD (480X576), AVI and lastly, DVD (720X576)

2. Recording BitRate ... options available, 4000000, 6000000 and 8000000

3. Stream Format ... options available ... YUY2, RGB555 and UYVY

I have the manual as a pdf ... but it doesn't explain any of the terms or how choosing different settings affects the final recording etc., so if anyone can spare me 5 minutes to post a helpful reply then I would be most thankful.

Cheers

[PhillipWyllie]

Hi Maxicomm. I have the same card as you, and I advise you to uninstall all the software you installed(including the driver). Right click on My computer and find your self in hardware. Right click on the device "multimedia controller" (it should be yellow) and update driver using the cd you have. It's important not to install the capturing software from mercury. Now install VirtualVCR and use that. I'd capture with the HuffYUV codec in the YUY2 colourspace at either 720*576@25fps or 720*480@29.96fps(depending where in the world you are).

[jggimi]

Hello, Maxicomm, and welcome to Doom9's forum.

You have a common device -- a PCI capture card. If you look at the picture of the card in the link provided, you'll note that the big boxlike thing with "Mercury" on it is the tuner -- this is used when you're using RF video -- from a TV antenna or cable-tv coax -- and have picked a channel.

The chip sitting by itself in the lower right of the picture is your Analog -> Digital video converter. We can't tell what it is, but if you look at the card you installed in your PC, you can squint at the chip and read the little tiny writing. It will have letters and numbers that will tell you which one it is. For example, if it says "blah blah 878 blah " then you know you have a Connexant / Brooktree BT878A or compatible.

Once you know that, you'll be able to use the tables in our Capture Guide (http://www.doom9.org/capture/start.html) for detailed settings. You may wish to use features of other capture applications, or perhaps, different features of alternative drivers for that chip, should you wish.1. Video Format ... options available are MPEG1, MPEG2, VCD (352X288), SVCD (480X576), AVI and lastly, DVD (720X576)
MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are industry standard video compression formats published by the Motion Picture Experts Group. MPEG-2 is a more recent standard than MPEG-1, and is the video compression format used in DVDs.

VCD stands for Video Compact Disc, and is an industry standard implementation of MPEG-1 for CDs. That is, it has a specific resolution, a specific bitrate, and other specifications that allow it to be used in hardware players. The format is most popular in Asia, where VCD players are more numerous than VCRs, and commercial discs are widely available. The VCD standard allows for 74 minutes of A/V on a 74 minute CD, and 80 minutes of A/V on an 80 minute CD, etc. The resolution and quality of this format are relatively low; but most DVD players are capable of playing them, if they are capable of handling CD media (CD-R, CD-RW).

SVCD -- Super VCD -- is a newer video CD standard. It uses MPEG-2, larger resolutions, higher bitrates, etc. Most (but not all) DVD players are capable of playing them, if they are capable of handling CD media

DVD -- Digital Versatile Disc -- is an MPEG-2 implementation that uses higher resolutions, higher bitrates, and has more capabilities than any video CD. The optical media is different, as well, though it is the same physical size as a CD. Most (but not all) DVD players are capable of playing DVDs from the appropriate media (DVD-R or DVD+R, etc.)

If you have a standalone player, you can see what media and formats it can use by looking it up by make/model in the database at www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers.

Choosing any of these three -- VCD, SVCD, or DVD -- will create video in MPEG-1 or MPEG-2 that meets the applicable standards. You will still need to "author" a disc -- apply soundtracks, menus, etc. -- and then burn the CD or DVD discs. You will need other software than your included capture software to perform these steps.

If you select MPEG-1 or MPEG-2, my guess is you will be able to manually set resolutions, bitrates, and other features using either of these two compression methods.

AVI is a container format for audio and video on PCs. The video compression formats used within the AVI can vary wildly -- everything from completely uncompressed video to all sorts of MPEG-4 formats. The latter are the formats most commonly used by our members who work in AVI.

If you follow our guide, it recommends capturing in AVI containers, using HuffYUV, which is a "lossless" compression format, unlike the MPEG technologies. One doesn't lose any detail generation after generation in lossless formats, unlike MPEG.

Why? Firstlyl, capturing in MPEG takes CPU cycles -- lots of them -- and it is common to have dropped frames when capturing in any MPEG (1,2,or 4) format at a sufficiently high resolution and bitrate that maximizes quality. Secondly, it allows for editing and formatting into final format afterwards -- "post processing" -- without quality loss or dropped frames.

Bitrates vary -- VCD/SVCD/DVD have bitrate and resolution standards. In general, the higher the bitrate, the higher the quality.

As for what your software calles "streams" -- these are various colorspace standards. A colorspace standard describes how the color and brightness of a pixel is determined. RGB, for example, takes 24 bits (3 bytes) to describe the color of a single pixel. Most of us try to capture in YUY2 or YV12, which are more efficient ways of describing color.

Phillip jumped in -- but my descriptions may still help.

[maxicomm]

Thank you both for your polite and helpful posts.
As a newcomer to this forum I wasn't sure as to how 'switched on' or not one had to be ... some forums I've used in the past were real 'Hell Holes' but I am glad to find that this seems to be an idyllic forum with friendly people who are all too willing to help !

Thanks once again.

[jggimi]

We were all newbies once.

You may find some of the guides and links in Doom9's The Basics section helpful, as well as his Glossary.

[maxicomm]

Thanks for that ... I've uninstalled all the Mercury stuff and installed the updated drivers and just installed the VirtualVCR software ... is there any supporting text files that you know of to go with the software or is it a case of 'tweaking' the bells and whistles until I get a satisfactory result ???
Thanks again for your incisive and friendly assistance :-)

[PhillipWyllie]

When capturing it's advisable/desirable not compress the video using a lossless codec or artifacts(mosquito noise, blocking, chroma blurring) will appear. MPEG-2 is a lossy method, HuffYUV is lossless. Just look at Sky One(in the UK) to see these artifacts. You want to capture at the highest possible frame size your system can handle. This being 720*576@25fps( PAL)and 720*480@29.96fps(NTSC). Although I capture at 768*576@25fps as an experiment.
Once you've captured you may/will have to do some post processing (deinterlacing, denoising, cropping/resizing). This is where avisynth comes in.
When you have "digitally remastered" your clip you can now encode in MPEG-2. This is where CCE Basic/SP comes in. Then you'll have to author a DVD.
By capturing at the best settings, having a good TV signal, sensible post processing. you can author DVDs that have rather excellent quality( all though not as good as commercially made DVDs)

[jggimi]

...MPEG-2 is a lossless method, HuffYUV isn't....I believe you've got that inverted, Phillip. All MPEG compression technologies, including MPEG-2, are lossy. HuffYUV is recommended for capture because 1) it *is* lossless, 2) compression has low CPU consumption -- though decompression can be quite slow. There are other lossless, or nearly-lossless compression technologies that can be used in place of HuffYUV, but MPEG isn't one of them.

[maxicomm]

Greeetings One and All ...

Once again many thanks for all the good stuff.

I've been reading my way through, around and over the guides and other stuff and have finally managed to get to the point where I've been running a few tests and trials.

However, I've got one basic question that perhaps someone could help me out on, and its this; in the tests I've run, the video preview freezes every few seconds and the saved video is very choppie and fragmented. It seems to have recorded a frame or two, then stopped, then started again etc etc

All the settings are as per the Guide which you kindly directed me to, so I suppose the basic question is, is it likely that my pc isn't up to the job/runs too slow ... or am I a basic dim wit ??

In the case of the last option, Replies, please, on a postcard to .... :sly:

Thanks in anticipation of the usual high level of input :-)

[PhillipWyllie]

That means you're dropping frames. Make sure you are not running any other programs, and don't acces the drive that you are capturing on(this is more important). Secondly are you capturing in MPEG-2?, because if you are then this is what's causing the dropped frames( your CPU can't keep up).

[maxicomm]

Hi Phillip

Many thanks for that ... I was capturing to my E: drive (got 3 HDDs installed) and apart from the usual background services and trojan stoppers etc there wasn't another main program running ... guess the ol' CPU is running out of puff LOL

Maybe time to invest in a new MOBO and CPU etc.

Thanks once more for the invaluable assistance !

[mg262]

It could be the hard disk just as easily as the CPU, so don't start taking apart your PC yet. You can check CPU usage -- open task manager while capturing and see if it is maxing out or close to it. (And report back). A bit more information on your system specs would also be useful...

[maxicomm]

Hi,

Thanks for that MG but as u suspected the CPU usage is the problem ... went straight to 100% as soon as I hit the record button !
So we know know what that means LOL

Any thoughts as to what I should be aiming for ???
Just found a fairly good/cheap MOBO which will handle an AMD 3000+ ...
"2 x 184-pin DDR200/266/333/400 up to 2GB, ATA 133, Audio: VIA VT1612A Audio CODEC conforms to the AC'97 2.2 specification, Onboard LAN: 10/100Mbps VT6103, Slots: 1 x 8xAGP, 5 x 32-bit PCI, 1 x CNR, Supplied with User's Manual, IDE Lead, Floppy Lead, Back Plate and Driver CD."

What do you think ... mobo + new cpu and maybe 1Gb of DDR400 ????????

[mg262]

A bit more information on your system specs would also be useful...;) ...

[maxicomm]

Hi,
OK ... here is the info you requested :

Operating System
Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2 (build 2600)

Processor
1.47 gigahertz AMD Athlon XP
128 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Drives
402.03 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
346.77 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

Maxtor 6Y080L0 [Hard drive] (81.96 GB) -- drive 2, s/n Y29N57LC, rev YAR41KW0, SMART Status: Healthy
Maxtor 6Y080L0 [Hard drive] (81.96 GB) -- drive 0, s/n Y29N57LC, rev YAR41KW0, SMART Status: Healthy
SAMSUNG SP1604N [Hard drive] (160.04 GB) -- drive 1, s/n S013J10X540236, rev TM100-24, SMART Status: Healthy

LITE-ON DVDRW SOHW-1693S [CD-ROM drive]
LITE-ON LTR-48125S [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]


System Model
VIA Technologies, Inc. KM266-8233A

Main Circuit Board
Board: KM266-8233A
Bus Clock: 133 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 6.00 PG 01/16/2003

Memory Modules c,d
1024 Megabytes Installed Memory
Slot 'A0' has 512 MB
Slot 'A1' has 512 MB
Slot 'A2' is Empty
Slot 'A3' is Empty

Local Drive Volumes
c: (on drive 0) 81.95 GB 63.62 GB free
d: (on drive 1) 160.04 GB 135.37 GB free
e: (on drive 2) 160.04 GB 147.79 GB free

Printers
Adobe PDF Converter on My Documents\*.pdf
FlashPaper2 Driver on FlashPaper2PrinterPort
HP DeskJet 1220C Printer on DESKJET1220C
HP LaserJet 3200 Series PCL 6 on HPLaserJet3200_copy_3
Microsoft Office Document Image Writer Driver on Microsoft Document Imaging Writer Port:
SnagIt 7 Printer on SNAGIT7

Controllers
Standard floppy disk controller
Primary IDE Channel [Controller]
Secondary IDE Channel [Controller]
VIA Bus Master IDE Controller

Display
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100/200 [Display adapter]
Proview 18.0 [Monitor] (18.0"vis, November 2002)

Multimedia
Avance AC'97 Audio for VIA (R) Audio Controller
Mercury TV Card 7130
Mercury TV Card WDM TV Tuner
Splitcam, WDM Camera Stream Splitter
Standard Game Port

[mg262]

Wow -- that's comprehensive! Thank you.

I would say that before you upgrade, there are a few things worth trying... first and foremost, a different capture application. I recommend iuVCR. Make sure you are capturing video to HuffYUV and audio uncompressed. (uncompressed audio = PCM)

Edit: let me add to that on my P4/2400 I can capture full resolution PAL with about 30% CPU usage... so I would have thought that there was a possibility that your machine will be fast enough given a bit of tweaking. NB: iuVCR is not specifically necessary... I would just try another capturing application.

[maxicomm]

Cheers MG,
I'll give it a bash ... although I've heard a lot about this HuffYUV I didn't see it listed in either the Mercury software or in the VirtualVCR.
I did download VirtualDubMod but didn't install it.
Anyway, I'll see if I can rustle up a copy of iuVCR from somewhere and see how it dangles.
THanks again ;-)

... oops, forgot to ask, what's your thoughts on the tweaking issue ??
Cheers.

[mg262]

Hang on, hang on, hang on... I thought you were already using HuffYUV. Most other codecs are much more CPU intensive. Trying HuffYUV (in any video capture program) should definitely be the first thing you do. You need to download and install the HuffYUV codec before it shows up... just Googling it should find it, but come back to us if you can't.

I've never used VirtualDub variants for capturing, but I would recommend installing a version of it anyway... it's very convenient for playing with video in a variety of ways.

Tweaking... there's a few things to try, such as disabling some of the (often useless) processes that can be running in the background -- but I was going to suggest one thing at a time to prevent it getting overwhelming. HuffYUV is definitely the first thing to try.

[maxicomm]

Cheers ... LOL
Already done the "X" bit with the background stuff in XP ;-) ... in fact its pared down to the bone !
THanks for the info on the Huffyuv huffyduffy thingie codec ;-) ... I was wonderin' why everyone was talkin' about it but I didn't seem to find it in the software ... still on that steep bit of the learning curve ! Please excuse my ignorance ... but I'm trying to read as much as I can as fast as I can !
Thanks again !

... a sense of humor does tend to help LOL

[mg262]

Already done the "X" bit with the background stuff in XP ;-) ... in fact its pared down to the bone !You can do better than that... lots of things run without actually displaying any windows. You can kill specific tasks in task manager, but a better solution is to run (using start/run) msconfig, go to the rightmost pane ('Startup'), and disable anything you don't want to load on startup. BE CAREFUL DOING THIS... in theory you could cause a problem by preventing something essential from running (although I've never actually hit that problem).

Using Google will tell you what each entry does and (usually) whether it's safe to remove or not; most of them you probably won't want to loading every time you start the computer. [For example... Adobe Acrobat Reader loads part of itself into memory every time you start the PC. IMO this is deeply antisocial!]

[jggimi]

You can find links to HuffYUV on Doom9's full software page (http://www.doom9.org/software2.htm). There's also a link in our FAQ, in Q14.

[maxicomm]

I've just run an online test at PCPITSTOP which revealed that my Hard Drives are running really slowly ! ... test indicated that thet were only running at about 3% of tests run on similar machines with a similar mechanical and software combination using similar cpu's etc.
I think the problem may be with the EIO IO AP-1680 ATA133 IDE RAID PCI Controller which is installed and which controls the HDDs.
I do remember having problems with it when it was installed and it took ages to get it to work with XP. Eventually it did (after being checked and declared OK) and ever since then the machine has run, in general, as if it's dragging it's feet through glue ! There were instructions with it but they gave no info on how to setup the card.
Anyone know of a site/group where I can get some support on this issue ???

Cheers.

[mgh]

If DMA is not enabled you will drop frames with any PC-disable everything which loads automatically-such as antivirus-messenger-download managers before starting capturing-you can reenable them after you are through capture-try the PICVideo MJPEG codec for the video-it is the fastest encoding codec available and a boon for lower speed PCs-use uncompressed audio-when i had a PIII 800 with a slower HD-i could capture 720x576 PAL without dropped frames at quality setting of 16-at higher settings it would drop frames. I was never able to capture at that frame size using huffyuv with that PC. Try a resolution of 352x576 for PAL or 352x480 for NTSC (so called half D1).

[maxicomm]

Cheers,
I'll give it a go !