Nero Recode High Profile AVC support

[DnA]

Hi everybody,
does the latest version of Nero Recode (2.2.6.17c) support High Profile AVC video encoding? And if no is there any date for such release?
Thanks.

[Sharktooth]

no and no.

[AlexeyS]

Yep, I've tired of waiting too. The beta test was few half year ago, but still there is no Ateme's AVC HP.

[acidsex]

Its no biggie, just use MeGUI and x264. I can hardly tell the difference between their encodes compared to the last beta.

[IgorC]

Sure. I cant tell difference beween the latest revision of x264 and Ateme.
Only thing Ateme is faster.

[Hyper Shinchan]

Well, at least on my PC (PIII 1GHZ) X264 is REALLYYYY faster, but I don't know if you're talking about the beta of Atheme encoder or the commercial one included in Nero Recode (anyway I don't have the last release of Nero 7 yet). Maybe it's because you have a multi-thread processor or something like this..... I don't know.

[Sharktooth]

Ateme is still working at the encoder (yes, it's still in beta stage). When it's finished Nero Recode will incorporate it.
Now stop asking "WHEN, WHAT, HOW".

[bond]

When it's finished Nero Recode will incorporate it.where do you have this info from?
iirc noone of nero said that on doom9, and iirc ateme said their encoder is ready to use

[AlexeyS]

Ateme is still working at the encoder (yes, it's still in beta stage). When it's finished Nero Recode will incorporate it.
Now stop asking "WHEN, WHAT, HOW".
Do you know approx date? Next month? In half year?

[Sharktooth]

I correct myself... When it's finished MAYBE Nero Recode will incorporate it.
And STOP ASKING.

[acidsex]

I thought within the last week someone from Ateme said the High Profile support is ready for Nero to use and its up to Nero when they choose to implement it. Seeing how Nero has their hands full with Nero 7 and 3 months worth of bugs and two updates that have hardly fixed anything and still renders most of its programs nearly unfunctionable, I would say it might be awhile before we see HP support.

With no disrespect to the Nero developers here on Doom9, I dont think I have ever seen a program as borked from release like Nero 7 since Windows ME. Its truly sad.

[JohnV]

I got information from the management 4 days ago that things are getting sorted out now for the High Profile support to be included. There has been delays for one reason or another..
I'll let you guys know when I get more information.

[JohnV]

With no disrespect to the Nero developers here on Doom9, I dont think I have ever seen a program as borked from release like Nero 7 since Windows ME. Its truly sad.
Hmm, you are on a happy mood today.. ;) At least the Mainconcept guys got their part from you too today.. :D
Ok let me know the 5 biggest problems in your opinion, and I'll send regards to the responsible devs. :)

[acidsex]

JohnV, I am not trying to dump on Nero developers. Take a look at this forum
CDRLABS (http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=498af84617866131e6417aa6d5fb8b69)

My asbolute biggest problem is after installing Nero 7, if I navigate to my audio folder to select a file, regardless of what program I use (winamp, foobar, showtime) as soon as the navigation window opens, it crashes whatever player I am using. Uninstalled Nero 7 and went back to N6.6 and the problem disappears. I dont exaclty if its a problem related to scout or what it is but it is quite annoying.

Backit up has given me some fits as well among other things that have been listed over at the cdrlabs forum. I am positive they will get fixed in time but it just feels like those that have purchased N7 at this point have amounted to nothing more than paid beta testers.

Oh yeah, one other thing. When transcoding mp3s to Nero HE-AAC using the Extras>encoders, various files encoded have pops and skips in them that dont have the same pops and skips when encoded using N6.6 encoder as well.

[Sharktooth]

Yes, i repeated 10.000 times (mails, forums, irc, etc) to fix the issue with serial numbers and i hoped they fixed it in nero 7...
But, guess what? More problems than ever... the Nero Produc Setup crashes too...

[JohnV]

JohnV, I am not trying to dump on Nero developers. Take a look at this forum
CDRLABS (http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=498af84617866131e6417aa6d5fb8b69)
I think Craig is doing a good job there. It's not always software's fault btw..

My asbolute biggest problem is after installing Nero 7, if I navigate to my audio folder to select a file, regardless of what program I use (winamp, foobar, showtime) as soon as the navigation window opens, it crashes whatever player I am using. Uninstalled Nero 7 and went back to N6.6 and the problem disappears. I dont exaclty if its a problem related to scout or what it is but it is quite annoying.That's strange. I use due to my work lots of different player, never had this problem.

Oh yeah, one other thing. When transcoding mp3s to Nero HE-AAC using the Extras>encoders, various files encoded have pops and skips in them that dont have the same pops and skips when encoded using N6.6 encoder as well.I'll check if I can replicate. But just as a hint, imo it's not the best idea to transcode already once encoded material. Of course this should work without problems tho.

[acidsex]

Yeah Craig is a good guy, thats why Im confident it will get worked out.

What I am doing is trasncoding hi bitrate mp3 (320k) to HE-AAC to conserve some disk space Honestly, I have compared both mp3 320k and HE-AAC streaming preset and I cant hear any difference although I am sure there is some notable difference but thankfully my ears cant hear it so its not a loss for me.

[IgorC]

Acidsex There is also an excelent updated recently HE-AAC2 in CD-DA extractor poikosoft.com . Also Nero´s devs are preparing a new VBR mode of their new LC and HE-1-2 AAC.

[acidsex]

@IgorC: So do you think it would be wise to go ahead and try to reinstall Nero 7 again?

[IgorC]

No. Most probably nero audio encoder will be enable in GUI like that http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=36870&view=getnewpost

and HE-AAC2 from CD-DA extractor is very good maybe slightly better than current Nero7 HE-AAC2

Yes , it madness to download a 100 mb only for a new audiocodec :p

[Sharktooth]

the CD DA extractor AAC+ plugin is the same as Winamp encoder plugin.
Developed by Coding Technologies: http://www.codingtechnologies.com/products/aacPlus.htm
I confirm it's better than nero for movies audio at lowest bitrates.

[IgorC]

yes its the same updated CodingTech (CT) codec HE-AAC2 as in the last Winamp 5.12
There will be new version 5.13 with improvements on HE-AAC2.

[Sharktooth]

good to know. coding tech is doing a really good job and are providing fast updates.

[acidsex]

Does Nero 7's HE-AACv2 work in CD-DA Extractor program?

[Kurtnoise]

I confirm it's better than nero for movies audio at lowest bitrates.
Prove it please...

[JohnV]

IgorC: Where you got the information that there will be updated CT encoder in WinAmp 5.13?
I ask this because there's an AAC@48kbps test on planning state on HA, and the latest codec versions should be used in it:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39731
It's also suppose to test do people prefer Parametric Stereo or not at 48kbps, and best performer should be used in the multiformat 48kbps test which follows.
Nero will have updated codec for the 48kbps AAC test using new LC-core and improvements on SBR/PS. We'll see the first results from the totally new LC-core when results from the 128kbps test are out after Christmas.

[Sharktooth]

Prove it please...
well... the difference is quite clear. try if by yourself.
nero is better for music and CT is better in dialogs.
remember i did a ultra low bitrate test (32kbps)...

@JohnV: thanks for the updates :)

[Kurtnoise]

nero is better for music and CT is better in dialogs.
remember i did a ultra low bitrate test (32kbps)...
maybe yes, maybe no...Did you use PS ? What kind of settings ?

[greggerm]

Either way - All this talk has me eager for the newer encoder, but not for the HP support, rather for the better handling of multi-core/multi-processor systems.

I can't think of the actual term, but this latest encoder will make use of the second processors and cores far better than the current versions, right?

-Greg

[anne_so78]

Prove it please...
Coding Technologies' aacPlusv2 encoder v7.2.0 is superior to Ahead's HE-AACv2 encoder v4.2.2.3 when it comes to encoding at a bitrate of 32kbit. This is especially true when encoding audio tracks predominantly containing voice. Check out this page (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=752994#post752994) to see how I came to that conclusion. You don't need to have "golden ears" or high-end equipment to tell the difference...

[IgorC]

IgorC: Where you got the information that there will be updated CT encoder in WinAmp 5.13?
I ask this because there's an AAC@48kbps test on planning state on HA, and the latest codec versions should be used in it:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39731


From here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39731 :)

[Kurtnoise]

well...the BIG problem is that :
The Source: A 2-minute audio clip .........source(192kbit stereo, 48khz, AC3 encoded).
why AC3 ? why 2min ? how could you conclude with just 2 mins of a dirty AC3 sample ?

[anne_so78]

why AC3 ? why 2min ? how could you conclude with just 2 mins of a dirty AC3 sample ?
'coz I'm BAD :devil:

[JohnV]

From here http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39731 :)
I don't see any information about Winamp 5.13 and new CT version there?

[anne_so78]

yes, I too remember reading somewhere on HA about Winamp 5.13 including a new CT version. Release date in a few weeks IIRC.

[JarrettH]

Hate to bump this :P

Has High Profile been added since then? There are many AVC profiles in 2.2.7.6...do they just give more options to use within Main Profile? Max Def. seems to give the most flexibility, thanks!

[bond]

no high profile in nero till now

[dvd_maniac]

no high profile in nero till now

Till now? Does that mean Now it does or did you mean not yet?

[shon3i]

@Kurtnoise13 did you say that encaccplus.dll in winamp 5.12 don't support multichanel encoding anymore. I encode 5.1 ac3 with nero and CT with 128kbs with belight beta 9 and nero has strange distorsion of noise and some zing zang efect in high frequency. Where i can download that Altheme and how to use.

[Scarpad]

I wonder if Nero will ever add a Baseline profile that will allow AVC Support on the Ipod?

[bond]

Till now? Does that mean Now it does or did you mean not yet?NO high profile in nero till now, means that till now there is NO high profile support in nero and this will stay that way until nero adds high profile support ;)

I wonder if Nero will ever add a Baseline profile that will allow AVC Support on the Ipod?baseline profile is a profile below main profile. every main profile encoder, like nero, can also encode in baseline profile...

[Scarpad]

NO high profile in nero till now, means that till now there is NO high profile support in nero and this will stay that way until nero adds high profile support ;)

baseline profile is a profile below main profile. every main profile encoder, like nero, can also encode in baseline profile...


Well How exactly? I use Recode 2 for MP4 using Quicktime Compatibility. When I try any of the AVC profiles there is very minimal adjustments you can make, and the defaults do not work on the Ipod

[bond]

Well How exactly? I use Recode 2 for MP4 using Quicktime Compatibility. When I try any of the AVC profiles there is very minimal adjustments you can make, and the defaults do not work on the Ipoddisable every main profile feature and make sure you also follow all the other limits the ipod has (resolution, framerate...)
for the exact specs needed for the ipod :search:

[Scarpad]

disable every main profile feature and make sure you also follow all the other limits the ipod has (resolution, framerate...)
for the exact specs needed for the ipod :search:

I know about Resolution and bitrate I'll investigate the main features

Edit: ok these are from the Guide as what is tweakable in the Main Profile encoding. It does'nt specifically state what to turn off for Baseline:

Using the Decision quality slider, you can configure if the encoder will spend more time to improve quality or encode faster at the expense of quality. High Quality obviously delivers the best quality at the expense of speed, High Speed does the inverse.

Then you can configure the range of motion vectors using the Maximum vector range. The option decides how far an object can move between frames and still be recognized. Higher values are better but also degrade performance because a larger area of the picture has to be searched.

Maximum reference frames indicates how many previous frames can be referenced by a P-/B-frame.

The Maximum GOP size specifies the maximum distance between two I-frames (those are frames stored completely without any reference to previous frames, I-frames are usually the least compressed frames).

Finally, you can specify how many consecutive B-frames will be used by setting a value in the Maximum B-frames field.



There are more configuration options in the Encoding Tools section.

Checking CABAC makes use of the CABAC entropy encoding in the bitstream.

Bidirectional prediction enables B-frames (unchecking it disabled the use of B-frames).

Macroblock partitions enable partitioning of macroblocks. This is a tool to help with bitstream corruption.

Weighted prediction allows weighing reference frames and helps encoding scenes that fade in/out.

Deblocking enables the in-loop deblocking filter in the encoder. It's mean to prevent blocks right in the encoder. If you check Deblocking, the Deblocking options become active. You'll now have the same choice as in the easy mode between Automatic smooth and Automatic sharp. In addition, you have Deblocking strength, which activates a slider that allows you to configure the deblocking strength manually. The higher the value, the stronger the deblocking.


Finally, we have the Visual Enhancements.

In Source material, you can configure what kind of input you have. Selecting Chroma optimization rather than Normal activates a chroma improvement function (helps with colors). However, it can also be very useful for regular movies. In fact, in the recent codec comparison that NeroDigital AVC won, the cartoon mode was always activated.

Finally, the Psycho-visual enhancements use properties of the human visual system to make the resulting image more visually pleasing to the human eye. You can disable them, use them at Low strength, or High strength.


If I want to enable Baseline which options should be disableed here? I appreciate any help you can give

[Kurtnoise]

@Kurtnoise13 did you say that encaccplus.dll in winamp 5.12 don't support multichanel encoding anymore.
I know...:rolleyes:

Where i can download that Altheme and how to use.
What do you mean by "Altheme" ?

btw, if you look into BeLight packages you'll see some goodies. :cool:

[leowai]

@Kurtnoise13 did you say that encaccplus.dll in winamp 5.12 don't support multichanel encoding anymore.
I know...:rolleyes:

This mean I should keep the slightly older version (v5.111) encaccplus.dll of winamp for multi-channel encoding?

[Kurtnoise]

yep...

[shon3i]

I mean where i can download Altheme H264 Codec.
@Kurtnoise13 what you using for aac HE Nero or CT,
and what using for LC Nero or FAAC Please tell me.

[ChronoCross]

it's ateme. and you can't download it. it's a unreleased commercial product still in beta.

[leowai]

This mean I should keep the slightly older version (v5.111) encaccplus.dll of winamp for multi-channel encoding?
It seems like v5.111 no longer support multi-channel... Only the even older v5.1 works. :(

But I got the latest beta (v5.2 beta 359) works fine with 6 channel wav again.
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=236311
http://download.nullsoft.com/winamp/beta/

Great!