Mainconcept encoder v2 settings

[bigbull]

I used mainconcept encoder v2 to convert one of my DVDs to H.264 format.
The setting I used was the H.264 baseline mode. the size of the output file was 670 MB.
I tried autogk and converted the same to divx format. The 700 MB file created by autogk was much better than the h.264 file though I expected the reverse to happen. Should I try any other mode in Mainconcept. The output file was greater than 2 GB for other modes like h.264 high, etc.

please give me some info on the settings for mainconcept. Also is my expectation correct that the h.264 file should have a higher resolution than the divx one?

The file that I created using mainconcept could be played only by elecard. My powerDVD and windows media player failed to open the file. Same with my trial version of apple quick time.

Bigbull

[MuTeK]

It is necessary to change video bitrate:
video bitrate = (8*716800 / Duration(sec)) - 224

and, use this setting:
Mpeg Type: H.264 High
Frame encoding: Progressive
IDR Interval: 250
Reordering Delay: 3
Reference Frames: 4
Spatial Range: 64
Search Mode: 8x8
Subpixel Mode: Quarter
Use B-slice
Use Rate Distortion Optimization
Use Fast Intra/Inter Decision

[acidsex]

I tried their encoder but was able to get it to play back on any players anywhere and wasnt going to install elecard just for their files. Has this been resolved yet? I seriously dont understand using .mpg for containers since most players dont recognize .mpg with h.264 avc/aac streams.

[nm]

Mainconcept may be targeting more professional users who already depend on MPEG containers for stability and the availability of various tools. MP4 support is probably still lacking in these applications.

Have you tried VLC, MPlayer or MPC?

[acidsex]

Yeah, I have all of the various players and for some reason it just borks up. I can play it in graph edit with the elecard filters installed but get no audio playback (AAC.)

[acidsex]

If I could find an easy way to remux the .mpg container to an .mp4 container I would be estatic.

[nm]

Can you post the output of "mplayer -v file.mpg"? Perhaps by directing standard out to a file: "mplayer -v file.mpg > log.txt".

[acidsex]

Yeah Ill give that a try here afterwhile. In the middle of an encode currently.

[bond]

Mainconcept may be targeting more professional users who already depend on MPEG containers for stability and the availability of various tools.now i am really interest which "various professional tools" you can list using avc in .mpg to proove your claim to be right?

the only company using avc in .mpg is mainconcept

the rest use .mp4 (eg sorenson, envivio and apple)

If I could find an easy way to remux the .mpg container to an .mp4 container I would be estatic.extract the avc stream to raw .264 with mplayer and mux this raw stream to .mp4 with either mp4box (yamb) or mp4creator

[nm]

now i am really interest which "various professional tools" you can list using avc in .mpg to proove your claim to be right?

the only company using avc in .mpg is mainconcept

the rest use .mp4 (eg sorenson, envivio and apple)

I phrased my thoughts a bit incorrectly. I didn't mean to claim anything, I was just thinking aloud. :) Anyway, what I meant to say is that Blu-ray and DVB will use MPEG-TS for their (likely) H.264 HD content *. If the current market of professional DVD authoring and broadcasting solutions tells us anything about the future, MPEG-TS will be strongly present in these tools for a long time to come. As for consumer programs, for example recording HDTV content with the new devices requires MPEG-TS stream editing. Perhaps DRM will be enforced, but this is still a planned feature of recording BD devices. Most currently used programs don't support AVC in MPEG-TS yet, but that time will surely come soon.

MP4 might have been a better solution for Blu-ray, but it won't be used and companies that produce encoding tools may need to adapt unless a good common platform like the old VFW is established.

* Blu-ray Audio Visual Application Format Specifications for BD-ROM (http://www.bluraydisc.com/assets/downloadablefile/2b_bdrom_audiovisualapplication_0305-12955.pdf) (PDF) from http://www.bluraydisc.com/.

[Sergey A. Sablin]

If I could find an easy way to remux the .mpg container to an .mp4 container I would be estatic.
if you spent at least 2 minutes to search what you want you will find the solution - http://www.elecard.com/products/product.php?product_id=156

I seriously dont understand using .mpg for containers since most players dont recognize .mpg with h.264 avc/aac streams.
do you really think that this is our fault that "most players dont recognize .mpg with h.264 avc/aac streams"?

[acidsex]

Sergey, done tried that option once before. Xmuxer had a problem with demuxing so the util came off the system as quickly as it went on.

Do I think its your faults? Partially yes since the majority of the h.264 avc encoders output to the .mp4 container. And if players dont play your encoded streams, then what good is your encodes to begin with? Limited choices in playback surely will not help your market share. Why not support a container that has been basically adopted by every decent media player out on the market instead of a container that houses streams that players cant decode? Its common sense really. If I developed an app that encoded AAC audio and used a container that players didnt understand, is it my fault for not increasing usability or should I blame player developers? Furthermore, why should someone who has paid $500 for your program be forced to buy another program (xmuxer pro) just to get a simple .mp4 container stream? Call it what you want but to me, its just shitty business.

[adyga]

Hi to all.
With great expectations I imagined I was trying to find the appropriate settings for MainConcept Encoder v2 as bigbull was trying to.
If I am going for a DVD reencode then I would disagree a bit with MuTeK:
I suggest using the following:

Profile: H.264High 4.1 level (4.1 is highest for interlaced, then its progressive)
Field Encoding: Interlaced (since DVD content is interlaced), anyone correct me if I am wrong.

I had maybe the same experiments as acidsex, I will mention them in my own thread.
Yes, I don't see any great use at the time for MainConcept Encoder v2 since the same company has not any tool itself to remux/mux/play/edit the encoded files in mpg container using H.264, only Elecard StreamEye was able to squeeze info of those mpgs, but Xmuxer failed to mux/remux properly without losing some frames!

to Sergey A. Sablin & acidsex
I think its nobodys fault since we the consumers have the choise to use the most appropriate and supported formats, therefore its those companys loss of not supporting or getting arround this compatibility issues for the sake of their own interest in getting the attention of the future potentional customers. 500$ for an experimental package, well will You MainConcept give us a Brake!
:p

[Sergey A. Sablin]

Sergey, done tried that option once before. Xmuxer had a problem with demuxing so the util came off the system as quickly as it went on.

Do I think its your faults? Partially yes since the majority of the h.264 avc encoders output to the .mp4 container. And if players dont play your encoded streams, then what good is your encodes to begin with? Limited choices in playback surely will not help your market share. Why not support a container that has been basically adopted by every decent media player out on the market instead of a container that houses streams that players cant decode? Its common sense really. If I developed an app that encoded AAC audio and used a container that players didnt understand, is it my fault for not increasing usability or should I blame player developers? Furthermore, why should someone who has paid $500 for your program be forced to buy another program (xmuxer pro) just to get a simple .mp4 container stream? Call it what you want but to me, its just shitty business.

Well, just the majority of any community will do something that is not making this right. If you are thinking that if some encoder doesn't support some allowed feature (as MP4) than this is bad, but if most of the players doesn't support playback of streams which is used by international standards such as Blu Ray and HD DVD this is not so bad - I just don't understand your point.

Support of MP4 is not so big deal - our small appication Mobile Converter ( http://www.elecard.com/products/product.php?product_id=180 ) allows to encode streams to MP4.
Also don't speak for someone who has paid $500. Those guys can speak themselves. Next release we will include MP4 into our encoder application and our customers will get update - so dont worry for them.

[bond]

just because hardware bluray/dvb uses .ts and hd-dvd uses .mpg (two different containers) it doesnt mean thats the only way to go on software based solutions too
in fact
in the till now existing hardware world (eg psp, ipod or 3gpp) .mp4 is mostly used
in the till now existing software world (see the stickies) .mp4 is mostly used

one exception is the mainconcept encoder/decoder, which doesnt mean elecard is to blame, as elecards tools support .mp4

anyways i am fine with placing avc in .ts and .mpg too, still i think its a valid request to ask mainconcept to support interoperability with the 99% other avc implementations be it on the encoding or on the decoding side, especially if their stuff costs 500$

[bigbull]

Thanx for the settings for Mainconcept encoder. Will chk them out.

[acidsex]

Well, just the majority of any community will do something that is not making this right. If you are thinking that if some encoder doesn't support some allowed feature (as MP4) than this is bad, but if most of the players doesn't support playback of streams which is used by international standards such as Blu Ray and HD DVD this is not so bad - I just don't understand your point.

Support of MP4 is not so big deal - our small appication Mobile Converter ( http://www.elecard.com/products/product.php?product_id=180 ) allows to encode streams to MP4.
Also don't speak for someone who has paid $500. Those guys can speak themselves. Next release we will include MP4 into our encoder application and our customers will get update - so dont worry for them.

Hw can a company like MC be so short sighted? The majority is what matters. Right or not. Majority always wins.

MP4 is a big deal regardless if you wish to believe it or not. Again, for having such a high priced encoder, why rape your customers for a few extra bucks to give them the capability that should have been included to begin with? And I will speak on those that spent $500 because as a customer who has been marketed to by Mainconcept, I have that right to voice my opinion whether you like it or not. And when I am personally considering purchase (well I was until you came across with your arrogant "Mind your own business" attitude, I will continue to ask questions so I dont end up with a piece of shit software like you asses stuck me with version 1. Fuck me for not wanting to feel fuck over a second time by your company.

[bond]

acidsex, cool down plz, no flame wars

[acidsex]

Bond, my apologies but I am trying to stick to the points that I as a customer am concerned with and I am just taking offense when someone is saying that I shouldnt worry about those who paid $500. While he may feel they are not legitimate concerns, many others feel the same as I do WRT the mp4 containers.

[Doom9]

DVB will use MPEG-TS for their (likely) H.264 HD contentThat's just for transport. TS is not a valid option to store any content, it's only meant for transmission. And I very much doubt that Blu-ray would use TS for storage, that just wouldn't make any sense. Without specs, it would simply be premature to assume anything on the upcoming HD formats.. we'll see when they materialize. And keep in mind, we don't use VOB as storage container.. only DVDs use. They have good reasons for that, but if you just want to have an MPEG-2 video stream and AC3 audio stream stored on your PC, without no other requirements, the MPEG Program Stream would make much more sense. VOBs make sense when you have subtitles, menus, navigation, the likes.

If you don't like a product, don't buy it. You get x264 for free.. what more do you really need? And even if you bought the software, you knew upfront what you'd get. You can't buy a Pinto and then expect to get a Formula 1 racecar either.

[Doom9]

but I am trying to stick to the points that I as a customer am concerned withSo say "I wouldn't buy a $500 product without MP4 output" and you've made your point. There's no need for profanity.

And as far as the price goes, has anybody bought the ateme encoder suite? They certainly don't give that away for free either. x264 is not an alternative on the professional level because of licensing issues (though I suspect if somebody really wanted they could be sorted out), and NeroDigital isn't really an option either.. that's a consumer level product, and you get streams that contain various priorietary extensions (though not breaking the standard.. but just not being decodable by other decoders unless they also implement those extensions), and a tool that may not be suited for everybody.

[nm]

That's just for transport. TS is not a valid option to store any content, it's only meant for transmission. And I very much doubt that Blu-ray would use TS for storage, that just wouldn't make any sense. Without specs, it would simply be premature to assume anything on the upcoming HD formats.. we'll see when they materialize.
Blu-ray specs are already mostly complete. Check the PDF I linked to. It clearly states that a modified version of MPEG-2 Transport Stream is used as a container (apparently called BDAV MPEG-2 Transport Stream). The document contains an overview of AV-related technical specifications and refers to other documents for details.

[bond]

That's just for transport. TS is not a valid option to store any content, it's only meant for transmission. And I very much doubt that Blu-ray would use TS for storage, that just wouldn't make any sense. you are right, still this doesnt change that bluray will use ts ;)

i guess they dont know what to do with all the space they have, so they waste it by using mpeg-2 and ts ;)

[Doom9]

hmm.. how can I put this policitally correct.. they are incredibly off target.. but that sounds way too nice.. there's hardly any non insulting word that properly describe the decision to use a container built for error resilience in a transmission environment on a disc format that has its own error correction.

[Sharktooth]

Sony = POS.

[acidsex]

if you spent at least 2 minutes to search what you want you will find the solution - http://www.elecard.com/products/product.php?product_id=156


do you really think that this is our fault that "most players dont recognize .mpg with h.264 avc/aac streams"?


Ok, gave MC another shot tonight. The elecard muxer and also the mobile converter did not work for me. Is it possible Sergey, that you have a filter chain for graphedit to remux a MC generated file into .mp4? i will say this much, the quality going from 1080i>480p was suprisingly excellent. Not a bad codec at all.

[Sergey A. Sablin]

Ok, gave MC another shot tonight. The elecard muxer and also the mobile converter did not work for me. Is it possible Sergey, that you have a filter chain for graphedit to remux a MC generated file into .mp4? i will say this much, the quality going from 1080i>480p was suprisingly excellent. Not a bad codec at all.
FileSource -> Elecard MPEG Demultiplexer -> Elecard MP4 Multiplexer -> File Writer
should work fine.

[Romario]

Any news about, perhaps, new version of Mainconcept H.264 encoder this year?