Video render problems/disk skipping after burning VCD

[Lutochris]

I've got about a 69 minute avi file that I'm trying to convert to VCD. Quality isn't much of an issue so I figured I'd do this instead of creating a DVD. I used AVI2DVD first, but when I tried to playback on my standalone, I ran into some video problems. Basically, the whole thing plays fine, up until about the last 9 minutes. Then the video starts to get blocky and skip, not much at first but then it gets worse. By the time it gets close to the end, the video is having so many rendering problems that it slowed to a crawl, and the disc keeps freezing up (I can hear the DVD player keep trying to read it).

I had never burned a VCD before so I had no idea why it was doing this. I decided to do each step manually instead of just running it through AVI2DVD. I demuxed the audio and encoded it using besweet, that wasn't a problem. Then I ran the avi file through FreeEnc, using the same avisynth script that AVI2DVD generated. I muxed the resulting video and audio with TMpg, and authored/burned the VCD using Nero Express 3. It had the same problem.

Now, I looked at the video file that FreeEnc produced, as well as the muxed MPG file TMpg produced. Niether of them showed any video problems when playing them back on my PC. So I assumed the problem must be in either the authoring software or the burning software or hardware. So I got VCDEasy (since a lot of people on here seem to like it), authored/burned with that (using the same MPG file) on a different CD burner, but still the same problem.

So why is this problem only showing up after I burn the disc? Is there a problem when I encode the MPG file? I used FreeEnc and set it to VBR with max and min bitrate at 1150. I also set it to 4:3 and progressive. I don't know too much about these MPG encoders, but would that be where the problem lies? Or would it be with the authoring/burning of the disc?

[CirTap]

So why is this problem only showing up after I burn the disc?if the file plays file from your hard drive it could be as simple as you have a bad CD media, maybe "overburned".
To test the VCD data itself, create an CD-image file first (e.g. Nero), get Deamon-Tools, mount the disc image and see if it plays correctly.
If the image file play nice, your CD media might be bad.
You should check the previously burned almost-coaster with "Nero CD-DVD Speed" available (for free) from here: http://www.cdspeed2000.com/
Do a surface and file scan and you'll know if there's something fishy with that disc; if so: get better media or burn less data on that "brand".

CirTap

[jsoto]

Another tip is to burn at a low speed (4x , max 8x).
Don't ask me why, but usually the settops (may be only the old ones) don't like the CDs burnt at high speeds.
jsoto

[setarip_old]

@Lutochris

Hi!

Among the procedures you've used, did you make certain that the audio was reduced from 48,000Hz to 44,100Hz, as is necessary for compliant VCD?

[Lily]

hi Lutochris,
Have you managed it. If not, maybe you can have a try on winavi video converter http://www.winavi.com/avi-to-vcd.htm

[Lutochris]

Thanks for the helpful advice everyone!

I managed to fix it finally. I didn't think it was a problem with overburning, since the total size was about 670MB and I was using a 700MB disc. I tried viewing the images that were being created each time I tried it (thanks for the Daemon-Tools tip CirTap, that should save me a lot of coasters in the future), and they were still playing just fine from my hard drive. I had also tried 3 different CD brands (Imation, Maxell, and Promedia or something) and was having the same problem with each so I didn't think it was a media issue. Also I had the sound at 44.1khz so that shouldn't have been it. Finally I tried burning at a slower speed (I was burning at 48x, I reduced t 8x), and lo and behold it worked!

So thanks for that tip jsoto. FYI the two settops that I had been trying weren't ancient or anything. One was a Cyberhome that was bought about 2 years ago, and the other a brand new Sony DVD/VCR combo.

And thanks for the link to winavi, I'll give that a try next time too.

Thanks again everyone!

P.S. Is there an appropriate forum on here to ask about VCR trouble?

[CirTap]

Great to hear it's solved.
Burn speed .. woudn't have though of that
that's a beast of its very own. 48x is damn fast for a thin piece of spinning carbonat.
I don't trust these consumer-impressing numbers at all; usually burn with half (third max.) of whatever the media manufacturer claims the disc can handle, and with an old burner/old PC, half at max. of what they say. No need to stress the "burn proof" caches unneccessarily :-)
I can safe wait a few more minutes but have less coasters then, incl. more time to spend with better things than getting annoyed and angry :-)

CirTap

[jshumate]

There's a good, logical reason why burning at a lower speed solved your problem. It's why you should NEVER burn VCD/SVCD at anything above 8x. Personally, I won't go above 4x.

Here's the reason the lower burning speed solved your problem. CD discs have areas on the disc that are used for error correction. Both audio CD and CD-ROM discs use these areas. VCD and SVCD are burned to disc in a format that does NOT use error correction. These areas of the disc are available for storing data, so this is why 700 MB CD-Rs can actually store almost 800 MB of VCD/SVCD data. The extra 100 MB in my example is used for error correction for audio CD and CD-ROM discs and you can't use it for data storage without doing some weird, not-by-the-book stuff. The faster you burn, the more likely errors will be produced during the burn. Normally, this is not a big deal because the error correction areas of the disc can deal with it. Let's say, for example, if you burn at 48x that it typically produces 10 times as many errors as burning at 8x. (I made up those figures, by the way.) The more errors you have on a VCD/SVCD burn, the more likely it is to be a big problem becuase there is no error correction on these discs. Burning at a slower speed significantly reduced the errors in your burn and that was why the disc will play now.

Mobile Fidelity, who have recently returned to business after being known for some years for producing high end LPs and then audio CDs, now manufactures a line of archive quality gold CD-R discs. They sell for roughly $2 a disc. Mobile Fidelity says that their discs should last for 300 years if properly cared for. Their CD-Rs are rated at 1-12x speed and they suggest not burning any faster than 1x speed just to reduce errors in the burn. Many modern CD-R burners won't burn that slow though. I have one that won't go any lower than 4x.

I don't think any of the forums here are probably good ones to ask VCR questions on.
You might do a web search and see if there are any VCR specific forums. VCRs are pretty low tech here and I don't think many Doom9 forum members are very interested in questions about them.

[jsoto]

I'm not convinced with jshumate explanation.
VCD/SVCD use all the capacity to store data and nothing to error correction, that's true, but error detection areas (CRC) are still there. And one CD burnt at high speed usually can be read in the PC w/o any error (no CRC errors , and the VCD/SVCD plays OK)
So, I really believe that the bits are burnt "better" in a low speed process than in a high speed one. This make the CD more compatible with any kind of readers. Well, may be this is the same that jshumate is saying...

BTW, I have the same issue in DVDr. I have a very old settop that does not like DVDr burnt at 4x or higher (even using good quality brands). But, unfortunately, the DVD burning speed cannot be reduced easily, the speed and the brand combination must be supported by the firmware of your burner, and it usually allows only one or two choices (the maximum and one half). So I'm using an old SL burner (max 4x) to burn at 2x (2.4x) the 8x media.

jsoto