playing dirac in MPC

[Doom9]

I can't get it to work. I have my diracdecoder and diracsplitter properly set up, rendering works in graphedit, but in MPC I just get a black picture, nothing goes.
And I guess it would be too much to hope for seeking, would it?

[celtic_druid]

I have gotten it to work in the past. Made sure that I used the same libs for encoding/decoding though. Didn't work with dirac other than raw though, so no avi, etc.

[Doom9]

I am using the same libs (the dirac team compiled everything for me). I figure with disabling the built-in dirac splitter in MPC it would work but it's just a no go :(

Does anybody manage to get this done using the latest Dirac (0.5.4)? I need MPC to take screenshots.

[Yong]

I am using the same libs (the dirac team compiled everything for me). I figure with disabling the built-in dirac splitter in MPC it would work but it's just a no go :(
do u mean the 0.5.4 version? if yes, please provide the link :)

Does anybody manage to get this done using the latest Dirac (0.5.4)? I need MPC to take screenshots.
if i understand your post correctly, you only need to take dirac video screenshot?
mplayer can do that by output video frames to png/pnm/pmm/gif/tga/jpg formats:cool:

[Doom9]

do u mean the 0.5.4 version?Yes. The Dirac team sent me a patched ffmpeg for the codec comparison.. you can't download it anywhere.

mplayer can do that by output video frames to png/pnm/pmm/gif/tga/jpg formatsHow would that work? Say I want to take a screenshot of frame X.. what's the commandline? I just can't handle a commandline media player.. it feels so darned wrong to me to have a commandline player... after all video players are supposed to be visual.

but it doesn't really matter which dirac release it is.. as long as it's newer than 0.5.1.. try 0.5.3, it probably acts the same way.

[Yong]

Yes. The Dirac team sent me a patched ffmpeg for the codec comparison.. you can't download it anywhere.
i see, i thought u say dirac dshow decoder...
i have a dirac-enabled ffmpeg too :)

How would that work? Say I want to take a screenshot of frame X.. what's the commandline? I just can't handle a commandline media player.. it feels so darned wrong to me to have a commandline player... after all video players are supposed to be visual.

but it doesn't really matter which dirac release it is.. as long as it's newer than 0.5.1.. try 0.5.3, it probably acts the same way.
here is the batchfile:
@echo off
md "%userprofile%\desktop\png"
cd "%userprofile%\desktop\png"
start /b /w /low C:\"Program Files"\mplayer\mplayer.exe -ss 60 %1 -vo png:z=9
pause
this batch file will use mplayer output video frame to png pictures to your desktop/png folder, with the highest (z=9)compression.

here is one of the mplayer seeking options:
-ss <time> (also see -sb)
Seek to given time position.
EXAMPLE:
-ss 56
Seeks to 56 seconds.
-ss 01:10:00
Seeks to 1 hour 10 min.

ive tried several times, mplayer couldnt capture frames correctly because dirac have seeking problem, sometimes mplayer will capture some gray-colored frame only :(

[Doom9]

I'm using ffmpeg to encoder.. MPC to play back (as I said, commandline players make no sense to me and I will never use them, as the whole idea is so pointless)

[Yong]

I'm using ffmpeg to encoder.. MPC to play back (as I said, commandline players make no sense to me and I will never use them, as the whole idea is so pointless)
here is the simple frontend for cli apps, also can use it with ffmpeg or mplayer too. ;)
http://members.home.nl/w.speek/batchenc.htm
unless you can make mpc playing dirac, currently you only can use mplayer with openGL(if you compiled mplayer with openGL) capture dirac video clip screeenshot.
if u still think its sucks, then forget about it :p

[CruNcher]

Pointless why that in my eyes a very intuitive Mediaplayer would be one that Displays his whole configuration interface as a dynamic OSD like Mplayer does this allready partialy
Mplayer with the OSD of Crystalplayer + Speech Recognition + Console (Realtime) (build into the Kernel), that would be inovative. :)
Clumpsy (click everwhere) guis that MPC, WMP, VLC, BSPlayer, WinDVD, PowerDVD most every other Mediaplayer on the planet are useing today are old and outdated and should vanish fast. Clicking on the file and getting the video over the fastest Video Renderer that the system can use (VIDIX) that's actually what Mplayer provides and Players like MPC will never be able todo that you have all the different output render filter problems on Windows (DirectShow the Nightmare awakes).

I don't know whats wrong for you with a commandline Mediaplayer in my eyes it isn't pointless and Mplayer showed exactly that to the World, or why does it win Awards allmost every year and big mofo companies use it's source for their Standalone Systems.

Windows and Multimedia is pointless how it is @ the moment, to far away from each other and that's why we will see many CE Products in the Future that are buildup on Special Embedded Linux Kernels especialy Developed for this purpose Microsofts MCE is a joke in my eyes (whole Microsoft Multimedia is).

Commandline stuff is a powerfull tool the logic behind the arguments sometimes are to complex to work in a gui envoirement @ all so there is no other way, if you want todo very complex stuff you will be forced to use the commandline still for the coming years but yes commandline stuff in Multimedia will also change, we will see more stuff like Consoles in Future Mediaplayers sooner or later with those we can change the runtime parameters on the fly it will be changeing in the direction 3D FPS Engines are buildup today, very scalable :) but till then the Commandline is still your best friend ;)

Sorry for OT a little but Commandline Player/Encoder aren't Pointless.

[Nic]

@all: Please keep the thread on topic, Doom9 is just sharing an opinion.

@doom9: Hmmm, Tricky. It should work, I guess Gabest might be the only one that can answer your question. As a worst case scenario, I suppose you could make an AviSynth script which uses DirectShowSource to load the Dirac file. Then load that script in mplayerc.

-Nic

[Inventive Software]

Or get AviSynth to load the GraphEdit file. I think it can do that off the top of my head. If GraphEdit can render the file, then AviSynth can load that graph and have it able to render etc.

As for seeking, I think that's out of the question for now. ;)

[Doom9]

I suppose you could make an AviSynth script which uses DirectShowSource to load the Dirac file. Nope, that doesn't work.. DirectShowSource cannot determine the length of the video is one error, an audio problem I don't recall is the other. Playing the graph in MPC (something that usually should work) didn't work out either.

And guys, I wasn't talking about encoders.. I'm perfectly capable of handling the commandline, as a programmer I understand why you wouldn't want to deal with GUIs (there are much interesting things to do), but let's face it: all linux multimedia soft has to reinvent the wheel each time because there's no standard interface for multimedia. As a programmer that's not exactly something to look for to. Lack of APIs and constantly changing ones are two huge problems that Linux faces and that are not going to go away anytime soon. Popularity is one reason, but the fact that you have an API that will remain stable over many years without the least bit of change is one of the big advantages Windows offers.

You cannot use CE devices to explain why players shouldn't need a GUI. CE devices are completely different because they have a completely different GUI mantra. You still have a GUI, it's called remote control, plus you have the OSD. This is completely different from a PC software. Tell you grandmother "grannie, to play the video from my holidays you have to press start, then click on run, then press cmd and click on OK. Then in the black window that comes up type "cd \program files\mplayer" press Enter, then type "mplayer whatnoxyy -z- -3üoaudfpi". Granny will tell you "thanks my boy but I think I'm alright as it is" and turn back to the TV. Now replace granny with your favorite average computer user. Very few people today even know what "go to the commandline" or "open a commandline prompt" even means. Just because you do know and because on this board the percentage of people that knows is considerably higher than in the real world, that doesn't mean that you just can't do it that way. Just like you put a DVD into your DVD player and the thing starts playing, you need to be able to double click on a media file and it starts playing.. and since you have no remote on the PC, you need the controls on screen.
Whomever thinks different doesn't understand usability.

I've never seen an award awarded to mplayer but I have one: usability nightmare player of the year, how about that? Now flame away and keep in mind the forum rules ;) Oh yeah, and I wrote a GUI for mencoder by the way, just so you don't think I'm one of the haters. It was the first GUI to use mencoder for x264 encoding and came at a time hardly anybody used x264.. now look where we are today.

I should be getting a VCL with dirac support, hopefully it'll allow me to take screenshots.

[gabest]

I think the dirac decoder of mpc is too old to play files encoded with the current lib. Once they changed something in the bitstream format which made seeking impossible, after that I haven't updated the filters anymore.

[Caroliano]

You can decode the dirac stream to raw YUV using their tools or even setting it in the encoding time to play at MPC, but space is a issue. Maybe only decoding small parts per time...

[Doom9]

I think the dirac decoder of mpc is too old to play files encoded with the current lib.Is there a way to disable the decoder as well? I only see the splitter filter to be disabled.. I disabled it but that didn't help at all. I tried adding my new dirac decoder filter that can handle Dirac 0.5.4 and set it as the prefered filter, but that didn't change anything.

@Caroliano: I know that but it's not even an option (1000 frames = 250 MB). I would have the space if I really cared but this just can't be it.

[dirac]

I just downloaded MPC and was able to play back a 0.5.4 encoded .drc file. I disabled the Dirac filter in both Source and Transform filters, clicked Apply and OK. But the first time I tried playing back a 0.5.4 .drc file I got a blank screen. So I quit the MPC app, restarted it, checked that the builtin Dirac filters were still disabled, and from then on it started playing back the latest .drc files.

Anuradha

[celtic_druid]

Also works fine here. drc file encoded with ffmpeg and played back via external filter in MPC. Both compiled with current cvs libs. Definatly no seeking here though, time just sits on 0 to.

[Doom9]

I'm afraid I've been to thick to realize there are two built-in filters to be deactivated. Once I deactivated them both, I was finally able to play the stream.

[celtic_druid]

No seeking though right?

[Doom9]

yup, no seeking. There are a bunch of other problems but you'll hear about them when I finish up the qualification phase.

[SeeMoreDigital]

I've got a 59.3MB Dirac sample (well I think it's Dirac sample) called "snowboard-jum-720x576x50.rgb".

As you can see it has an .RGB file extension.... So I don't confess to know what that is all about. I've had the sample for around 18 months!

Can anybody shed any light?

[stephanV]

That seems like it is 50 fps 720x576 raw RGB... if it would be Dirac at least using the .drc extension would have been nice.

[SeeMoreDigital]

If somebody wants to PM me with some FTP info I will upload it, so you more experienced guys can analyse it....

Unfortunately I can't remember where I got it from originally.


Cheers

[celtic_druid]

From recollection there were some samples on the dirac sf site including raw rgb, yuv, etc. samples. Much easier I think to encode via ffmpeg.

edit:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dirac/snowboard-jum-720x576x50.rgb.gz?download

[SeeMoreDigital]

From recollection there were some samples on the dirac sf site including raw rgb, yuv, etc. samples. Much easier I think to encode via ffmpeg.

edit:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dirac/snowboard-jum-720x576x50.rgb.gz?downloadThanks CD.... Yur-the-man :)

Now.... Can anybody play it?


Cheers

[stephanV]

Sure, you can use the avisynth plug-in rawsource for example... but this is getting seriously off-topic. :)

[Kurtnoise]

I just downloaded MPC and was able to play back a 0.5.4 encoded .drc file. I disabled the Dirac filter in both Source and Transform filters, clicked Apply and OK. But the first time I tried playing back a 0.5.4 .drc file I got a blank screen. So I quit the MPC app, restarted it, checked that the builtin Dirac filters were still disabled, and from then on it started playing back the latest .drc files.
Tested with the last MPC and the latest dirac cvs entry but it doesn't work for me...:( Any Hints ?

btw, there is a GUI now :

http://kurtnoise.free.fr/dirac_enc_gui.gif

:: http://kurtnoise.free.fr/diracenc_20060319.zip

[celtic_druid]

Doesn't work here. ffmpeg crashes when encoding. MPC, updated diract splitter and ffplay all playback weird.

I really couldn't be bothered playing around with dirac. Too un-user friendly.

[Yong]

I think the latest cvs changes broked,
i can encode/decode flawlessly with ffplay/mplayer with older version of dirac.

[Kurtnoise]

Doesn't work here. ffmpeg crashes when encoding.
Did you use their patch or did you patch ffmpeg by yourself ?

[celtic_druid]

Their's, but it needed some work.

[celtic_druid]

Last update seems to have fixed it. Just did a test encode. avs to drc using ffmpeg and it plays back ok in MPC.

[Kurtnoise]

Can you share the patch ? Thank you CD. Yes, I'm lazy...:D

[guada 2]

Hello Kurtnoise,

I have a problem.
Where i can find MINGWM10.dll, to open your GUI please?
( excuse me but I am not an expert in this domain).

:thanks:

[Kurtnoise]

It's not *my* GUI but Dirac's devs one...I've just made a compile with it.

Have a look at this new package (http://kurtnoise.free.fr/misc/dirac_enc_20060319.zip).

[bratao]

Can anyone talk about actual Speed/ quality of dirac ??

[celtic_druid]

It is neither particularly fast and that cost in speed doesn't really pay of in terms of quality either. Grab my latest ffmpeg build and try it out yourself if you are interested.

ffmpeg patch (http://celticdruid.no-ip.com/temp/ffdirac.diff)

[Liisachan]

You can't compare Dirac with x264. Artifacts are noticeable especially in high-motion scenes. In short, it's not yet usable for any real purpose.

However, I feel Dirac very promising. I'm sure it can be at least as good as Theora or even SNOW.
Encoding is not very fast, but faster than SNOW -vme 8.
Decoding is currently very cpu-consuming. ffplay is a little faster than MPC.
In my test I just used a fixed -qscale, 1-pass. Is 2-pass Dirac encoding already possible somehow?

Dirac Sample
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4398/diraclo5rl.th.png (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=diraclo5rl.png)

Input, SNOW, Theora, Dirac, low-motion
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3817/waveletsamplelo3cp.th.png (http://img55.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waveletsamplelo3cp.png)

Input, SNOW, Theora, Dirac, high-motion
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2076/waveletsamplehi4at.th.png (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=waveletsamplehi4at.png)

[Yong]

Im not sure with ffmpeg, but i tested with mencoder,
2pass encoding, mb/sub/precmp and etc etc options doesnt work with dirac except qscale and vbitrate.

[celtic_druid]

As I remember mplayer/mencoder uses libavcodec/format for dirac. There was an earlier patch, but that was just for decoding.

[Yong]

actually dirac encoding works with mencoder with this parameters:
-oac copy -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=dirac:autoaspect:vqscale=5 -ffourcc drac -o "%userprofile%\desktop\%~n1.avi"

Yup, the dirac patch for mplayer only for decoding,
but i forgot already how i change the dirac patch to make dirac encoding work with mencoder :p

EDIT: looks like i didnt mod the patch :D ,
here is the simplified dirac patch for mplayer, by ak:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=747008#post747008

this patch will make dirac encoding work with mencoder.

[guada 2]

Thank you very much Kurtnoise.
;)

[celtic_druid]

decoding/parsing through lavc/lavf
That is what I was talking about before. The current patch uses libavcodec/format so the options should all be the same. The original patch effected mplayer directly, but was decoding only.

[Liisachan]

I tried
(1) ffmpeg -b 250 -pass 1 -passlogfile pass.log -i input.avs -y 1st.drc
(2) ffmpeg -qscale 2 -pass 1 -passlogfile pass.log -i input.avs -y 1st.drc
(3) ffmpeg -b 250 -pass 1 -passlogfile pass.log -vcodec dirac -i input.avs -y 1st.avi
(3 doesn't play, because ffdshow doesn't know the fourcc)

but the resulted pass.log was always empty (0 byte). I supposed I'll have to wait for a while before I can do 2 pass dirac encoding w ffmpeg.

[emmel]

Is it possible to find DiracDecoder.dll (dshow) for 0.6.0 somewhere?

The source compiles nicely under mingw, and the binaries seem to work. But I'm missing the dll for DiracSplitter.ax.

[Kurtnoise]

http://kurtnoise.free.fr/misc/Dirac-0.6_mmx.7z

[emmel]

Thx! :)