Standalone recorders

[tkmops]

Hi,
I just saw this thread, after spending hours on the 'net researching how to convert my old laser disks to DVD format(VOB) on my PC. But, it sounds as if
it's possible to convert directly from my laser disk player to a stand-alone(not in a PC) DVD recorder?
If this is not possible(due to file conversions, compression, etc...), then can you include a link to the how-to section for converting laser disks to DVD's?

Thanks :)

[jggimi]

Step 1) Plug your VHS or LaserDisc player's compositev video and audio output into your recorder's inputs
Step 2) Power on both devices
Step 3) Insert blank media
Step 4 ) Press "record" on recorder
Step 5) Press "play" on player.

Obviously, this won't help you if you have MacroVision protected content, or if you want to create menus, or if your content length is longer than will fit on the blank media, or if you want to do any editing, etc.

[tkmops]

Yeah, I sorta figured that's how one would do it,
so does the DVD recorder reformat the incoming laser disk signal into a VOB file? I guess it's a one-for-one copy, and not compressed? Since most DVD recorders have, what, 4 speeds?, I can just pick the speed that will allow the movie's full length to fit on the DVD?

[jggimi]

Did you miss Step 1? Those are analog connections between the player and the recorder.

[tkmops]

Um....Ok, the connections are analog. I just want to make sure that this is going to work before spending $200-400 on a DVD recorder. I hate to sound stupid...so does DVD recorder convert the
analog laser signal into a analog file(what kind?),
and not a VOB file?
I'm familiar with VOB's, having used DVD Decrypter to rip out VOB's and converting them to AVI's with Auto GK, but I'm trying to make a DVD copy of my laser disks that I can play on my DVD stand-alone player. :thanks:

[jggimi]

...I hate to sound stupid...No, just ignorant.

Analog video signals -- what your television converts into images -- contain chrominance (color), luminance (brightness), and synchronization signals. Analog video is available in the following formats: Modulated on radio waves, as with a television broadcast -- VHF/UHF/Cable TV. If you're using a coaxial cable, have set a channel number, and have sound included on the cable, you are using an RF (radio frequency) video signal. All signals are combined into a single signal called "composite video." This is typically a single cable with an RCA connector, and your sound must be sent separately (typically stereo on two separate RCA connectors). Sent in separate signals over an S-video cable (multiple wires combined in a single DIN connector). Sent in separate cables via component video (multiple RCA/BNC connectors).Analog video devices -- Televisions, VCRs, LD players -- will use one or more of these connections to send chroma, luma, and sync between devices. Digital video devices such as DVD players have analog outputs as well, in order to work with most television sets in the world.

A DVD recorder will have analog-to-digital conversion hardware, that will convert "lines" of analog video into pixels of digital information. It will also have encoding hardware, that will encode those pixels using MPEG-2 video compression, and it will have encoding hardware that will convert analog audio signals into a digital format valid for DVDs, such as Linear PCM / Dolby Digital / MPEG-1 Layer II audio. There will be firmware in the device that will combine these tracks into a VOB set and send it to the burner to create a DVD.

NOTE: Just like commercial video tapes and DVDs, LaserDiscs often have MacroVision protection on their analog signals. These disturb the sync signals -- not enough to disturb the image on a television, but enough to disturb or prevent recording. Many modern recording devices (DV camcorders, DVD recorders) will not attempt to record at all if they detect MacroVision protection by sensing an altered sync pulse.

NOTE: If you have a choice for your analog video connections, the highest quality is component video, the lowest is RF.

Take a look at http://www.doom9.org/video-basics.htm for more on how video -- both analog and digital -- work.

[CWR03]

There is a Pinnacle package for around $100 US that includes a USB 2.0 capture device and ULead's Video Studio 9 which gets extremely good reviews for quality and ease of use.

To explain a DVD recorder's use in recording a laserdisk in the simplest possible terms, it records pretty much the same way as a VCR. It is in NO WAY a digital transfer. If you're expecting VOB's that you can edit later, you will get them on the recorded DVD, but be warned that the video has already undergone two digital-to-analog-to-digital conversions. Any further editing will only degrade the quality more, and each degradation will be geometrically more detrimental (a lot worse). Your best bet to maintain optimal quality is to do a capture to a PC-based program in DVD-compliant MPEG-2 format, then burn those captured files with a DVD authoring program with no compression.

If you do decide to buy a DVD-recorder, you might first test for Macrovision (which you can defeat with an additional device) by recording a laserdisk video to a VCR. You'll know immediately if it has it. As jggimi said, some devices won't even recognize a Macrovision-protected signal.

[tkmops]

Thanks to both of you....lots of good info there.
I know my older lasers don't have Macrovision, as I used to copy my rented lasers to SVHS tapes just fine. :thanks:

[LocalH]

Since LD stores analog composite directly on the disc, you are getting the "raw data" from the disc when you capture analog. There is no way to transfer "digitally" from an LD, since it stores analog composite. Also, you may get your best results by using the composite output, even if your LD player has S-Video - at this point it basically boils down to, which device has a better comb filter, the capture device or your LD player? You can test this by merely doing some test captures with both composite and S-Video from the player, and whichever gives you the best result is the one you want to use.

[CWR03]

Also, you may get your best results by using the composite output, even if your LD player has S-Video
Did you perhaps mean "component?"

[LocalH]

No, I meant composite. If your capture device has a better comb filter than the LD player, then you'll get better results from composite than S-Video, since the disc only contains composite.

[tkmops]

I'm sorta limited as to what connections I can use..my laser disk player is soooooo... old, it has no S-VHS connector! Now, I'm in the market for a good(mid-range, not to expensive) stand-alone DVD recorder-anyone have suggestions as to which make/models are the best? I've been doing some research...I guess my first decision is to decide if I need one with a hard drive or not?
If I'm just going to be using the DVD recorder to transfer my old lasers over, do I really need a hard drive? I think that I might, as I will need to pause the recording while I flip the laser over to side 'B', or can one 'pause' the burning process.
Any suggestions/comments are welcome....you guys have been a great help so far...thanks again!! :thanks:

[jggimi]

I've split this thread on its own off of http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102964 as that thread was about software, and tkmops questions are all about standalone recorders,.