PGCedit and the layer break...hmmm

[NoSmartz]

I recently did my first 2 titles on 1 DL disc successfully.I had had some help and it went quite well.I go through the exact same process now and this is what I get below w/ the layer break positioning window.Aren't you suppose to have more than one option to to choose from(i.e...the yellow green blue lines etc..).I thought it was OK at first and did a DL yesterday and it won't even recognize in any of our dvd players.It just stops.One disc wasted.Can anyone explain what I'm doing wrong here?The 2 backups are single layer basic dvd's w/ original menus just like I successfully did before.They both are under 8000 mb's.

BTW... I used dvdremake to merge the dvd's on my first try and it worked fine,this time,not so well.

[r0lZ]

The fact that you have only one cell in the list is probably normal. 9:36 for a cell is quite large, and if cell 1 is also large, it is probably impossible to use another cell.
You may try to shrink a little bit Title 2 to be able to place the LB on cell 1.

Could you give more informations on the other problem? If a DVD is not recognized at all in a player, it's probably not related to the LB position.
I have had similar problems with a Maxell DL, while the same ISO burned on a Verbatim works well in all my players.
Of course, you should not use DL DVD-Rs. They are crap, and the method to burn them, though supported by PgcEdit, is still not well tested.

Also, I wonder why ppl like to join two DVDs as a DL, while it is simpler, cheaper and safer to burn two single layer DVDs. Though there are now some relatively good DL +R media, the quality of a single layer is considerably superior.

[laserfan]

...I wonder why ppl like to join two DVDs as a DL...For my own part, I've done it a couple of times, mostly for "the fun of it" and because I am driven by the desire to control my HT atmosphere. And also because the disc break in the couple movies I did was at a very (to me) distracting point.

Examples of two disc movies that fit on a single DL disc (after getting rid of extras & such) w/no addt'l compression are Pearl Harbor and the new Titanic special edition.

Thanks r0lZ for giving us LB control in PgcEdit!

[NoSmartz]

I basically wanted to add 2 movies to one DL cause I just wanted to see it work and learn a little bit about authoring w/ real authoring apps and not basic ones....when these DL's became cheaper here($2 a piece)...I decided it was time to try..I posted at videohelp and you helped me get my first one spot on..perfect all the way through..

The previous attempts all had the same result in that the Layer Break there was only one option...not a lot of cells available.....just like I posted above...I was confused and didn't wanna waste a another DL but I decided to try any way....I failed...I thought that since PGCedit didn't give me more than one option for the layer break placement this time and the last one I got numerous options...it was my error somewhere...The DL that failed and wouldn't play was strange..I've done basic Dvd Decrypter backups(i.e....1:1 copys w/o problems but 1nce I burned one at 4x on my 3520 and has problems at the layer break....the scan showed errors) but it continued to play after that issue....this DL disc didn't even initialise...it just went straight to "stop" on the tv screen and the dvd player(pioneer dv 333....BTW...plays everything)...I figured I made the error since there weren't many layer break options.. ..I did one before w/ the same layer break issues as I posted above and it was the one that failed...this failure makes me more cautious for sure....

I'm using tmpg dvd author and sometimes just a basic 4.3 gb backup w/ menus rip't w/ decrypter in file mode then I run both through Dvd Remake and "merge" them and that's about it..I'm gonna try another 2 different titles this time and see if I get the same result

It was a Verbatim DL

thanx r0lZ

[ron spencer]

the total size on a dual layer blank is 8152 meg. All my verbatim's are this. The fact is that the more space you fill up on the blank the worse off you are for choosing a layer break. If you want to have alot of choice, you should never burn more than 96% full on the blank...I have found 95.5% to be good and PGCEdit gives lots of choices.

Here is what I do to fit 2 movies on (DVDLab or TMPG will do this).

1. Keep them in separate VTSs
2. First (VTS 1) is movie 1.
3. Second (VTS 2) is a blank movie of 1 min or so with lots of chapters in it (makes cells).
4. Third (VTS 3) is movie 2.

When you author everything don't worry about the size of your project. Now use DVDShrink or whatever with a goal of 7785 meg. Now you should notice that you will be able to choose a layer break in the blank movie (VTS 2) via PGCEdit....now it does not matter if the cell is seamless or not as you never see it. Now no matter what movie you play you see no layer break pause. Perfect, but takes a bit or work. The addition of the 1 min movie is easy, and you can use a small bitrate as you never play it; this makes all the difference.


USE IMGBURN TO ENSURE YOU GET LAYER BREAK RIGHT!!!!!

oh yes....rolz is right, dual layer just is not as good as single, which is why it really never has gottn off the ground.

[NoSmartz]

Thanx for the input Ron..The only one success I had was about 96% capacity....I made sure I didn't fill it out cause I didn't want stretch it to the end(I usually fill single layers up though..:)..)...

here's my basic setup on how I did it..
1.rip't both movies w/ decrypter and put them in seperate folders(menus and all)
2.used dvd remake to merge both and blanked lots of stills(cells I guess) and got the size down to around 96%.
3.saved the project and export't the merged discs to a folder(takes about 15 to 20 minutes)
4.opened PGCedit and followed the instructions at his site on how to do Dual Layer Layer Break and the options were plenty....lots of cells to choose from.....chose title 3 and saved it
5.opened Imgburn and manually enetered the in the Layer Break point and 42 minutes later my first disc was done.
6.watched it and it was a success...no problems

I will say I've used tmpg the last 2 times and all I get is the one option.I kinda thought that since it was a basic authoring app was the reason for only getting 1 choice for my layer break option.

can you explain to me me how to get or make a blank movie as the second vts?....I'd like to give that a try....sounds very workable

If you can,let me know if what I've explained above is similiar to what you've explained in your process(i.e.....the seperate vts's and all)..

Thanx Ron

[ron spencer]

i wouldn;t use dvdremake for this....I would just use tmpg to reauthor...easier.

You need a NLE to make a dummy movie.

[NoSmartz]

well I tried w/ tmpg da and got about the same results...I didn't wanna reauthor a disc which had original menus anyway but nonetheless...no dice...I tried again w/ remake and took your advice about a blank vts or cell etc....I just don't know how to make a dummy movie w/ an NLE so instead of that I found a small backup...maybe 500 mb's and added a third vts.....IT WORKED!!!!!Now the Layer Break wasn't in the small title but at the end of the 1st VTS but I think that might have done it..The total size of the 3 titles I included was 97.1%...I wasn't happy about that but I couldn't blank anything else out so I went ahead and did it.....merged the 3 and went into PGCedit and came to the layer break options windows and this time there was more than one cell/layer break option....there was eight and 6 of them were highlighted yellow w/ one of those being highlighted blue...I chose that one and saved it...burn't it...SUCCESS!!!!! I went straight to the layer break point in the backup and it was a smooth transition....worked great.Thanks Ron..:)

and r0lZ...you were correct...it was a media issue I was dealing w/ on the last DL I failed at...these Verbatim batches here in the states vary in quality...the last three I've tried have been dodgy at best...The first I tried 6 months ago were perfect....now.....these are not that great....even at 2.4x...I scanned this one and had a spike in the layer break area but it played fine on my pioneer home player....no glitches

[r0lZ]

Thanks to let us know.

[ron spencer]

no problem...sorry about not being too descriptive in my post about an NLE...you could simply use anything via dvd shrink to make a dummy vts. I used an NLE to make a 1 min 20 sec dummy low bitrate movie for vts 2 with lots of chapters. It is only 22meg. I think your 500 meg one is too much, but that is just me.

I really like my dummy vts "middle movie" idea. Alot of burners often crunch at the layer break and this at least removes it from the visible movie, but it is more work. You should use PGCEdit though to add pre commands to the dummy movie to immediately jump back to the main menu just in case you use your DVD Remote to manually navidate there by mistake.

[r0lZ]

Right.

Note that when you have created the tiny title, you may want to keep it on your hard disk.
It is easy to add it in a "standard 2 titles" compilation with PgcEdit:
Just use File -> Import VTST Titles.
At this point, the tiny title is at the end of the compilation. This is not what we want. So, use DVD -> Remap Titlesets to move it in the middle.
Done!
Furthermore, with this method, your main titles will be titles 1 and 2, and the tiny title will be title 3. It's clean.

Note that when a DVD-9 with several titlesets is burned and you cannot find a good layer break cell, you may try to change the order of the titlesets to move some stuff before or after the main titleset. It may help to change the cells available for the layer break, and even increase the number of available cells.

[NoSmartz]

yeah I made a christmas DL and had a 12 minute one sittin on my HD and just threw it in there...97% was a bit high but it seems to work ok...Ima try and make a tiny little VTS next time and see how it goes.This PGCedit has tons of features in it....just gotta remember how to use all of em..:O

Increasing the number of cells is I think is what did it for me r0lZ...I'm gonna do this every time now...makes sense really...

I've gotta find another type of DL media around here but nothing is ever any good(memorex-ritek) on sale and these verbatims quality are scatter shot at best.There are Fuji's around here but they're not cheap..:(

are there any other brands of DL layer discs made or are there only the 3 that I know of?..(ritek..verbatim...ricoh) +r

[rcubed]

NoSmartz,
I've seen the same "spike" using Verbatim +R DLs. In my case it is a limited test sample 3 burns 1 @ 2.4x, 2 @ 6x. :( The spike only appeared when doing 6x. Also same experience that it didn't appear to affect playback on PC or standalone. :)

Does anyone have an idea as to what is causing this, is it a normal thing, problem, or totally media dependent? Verbatim seems to be the only game in town.

rOIZ Thanks again, PgcEdit with ImgBurn and the PSL2 plugin are an awesome combination. I especially appreciate the layer break feature. Thanks for the excellent work. :thanks: :) :) :) :)

rcubed

[ron spencer]

Verbatim is easily the most positive in DL (we can't say "best" here); not scattershot. If you get scattershot then it is your burner. To be honest the nicest burners for a while now have been Benq and LG...simply superb. I have used both exclusively for about 3 yrs now and NEVER a coaster (not even a dual layer one). The Benq 1640 is easily the nicest (I know we can't say "best" here) burner now.


...check out all the tests at www.cdrlabs.com

there is nothing to compare....the most un-nicest (I know we can't say "worst" here) are easily memorex, which are "2nd grade" ritek. I would trust nothing but verbatim in DL.

The spike is the layer break....you cannot get rid of it no matte what burner you use. You will not notice it when playing if you add a dummy title as mentioned above.

[NoSmartz]

my 3520 has burned these verbatim DL's fairly well until recently...I always burn @ 2.4x...only 1 @ 4x and there was problems viewing in the layer break so I stuck w/ 2.4x.....the last 5 I've done only 1 has been perfect all the way through...those spikes always appear at the break(all but 1nce) but the quality score is around 65 to 70 but have no issues when playing them....

if you check out some other forums you'll find that verbatim may produce the layer but CMC does the dye and the rest as of late so from what I understand...they're not like the 1st verbatim DL's released....x sell ent..:)..same goes for the verbatim SL 16x also...they're manufactured in 4 different countries now...not just japan as we all know....are the best..:)...my guess is to keep cost down and profits...^...:)

my burner does well w/ maxell,fuji,memorex etc....so my burner is fine I'm sure....media quality...;)