my head hurts! replacing original VOBs with edited VOBs - im stumped

[w0rd™]

hi, i've got what i think is maybe a simple problem, but i've read so much guides and threads(one by takuskan is similar, but i didnt want to steal the thread), but i cant figure out a simple method of actually getting this to work.

Basically i have backed up a dvd with dvdshrink to my HDD. I chose the menu, the movie, and one extra. The video_ts folder contains alot of vobs, ifo's etc..
All i did was open VTS_01_1.VOB, VTS_01_2.VOB and VTS_01_3.VOB with womble mpeg video wizard, cut a few scenes out of each vob, and did an auto save of each VOB with no re-encoding.
Now all i want to do is replace the originals with these, and thats it.

i know the other thread is about trimming the start and end off, but i have cut scenes throughout the vob, and one VOB has a small transition effect done with womble.

any help greatly appreciated, even a upto date guide that will help with my specific situation. I really need to get this done, as i've been trying for the past 3 weeks :o , and i need the hd space back :p to do other things.

:thanks:

[Humpty Dumpty]

Sounds lika a job for Vobblanker. Try this guide (http://jsoto.posunplugged.com/guides/VobBlanker/adding_menus/index.htm) .

[CoNS]

Yep, VobBlanker's Replace PGC function should do the job.

If your original DVD contains only one PGC in the VTST in question, you may also use one of these methods:
Use PgcEdit's Replace Title function to copy the new vob files back in, or
Replace the vob files manually (in Windows Explorer) and use IfoUpdate or BatchUpdateIFO to update the ifo files for the VTST in question.

(The method using VobBlanker will work even if there's more than one PGC in the original VTST.)

[frank]

No way, my friend!!
...but i have cut scenes throughout the vob, and one VOB has a small transition effect done with womble.VOBS are Video Objects managed by IFOs. If you cut something out or edit then you have to edit the IFOs too. That's a job of authoring programs. The IFOs control playing of Vobs (video, audio, subtitles, chapters, timing). IFOedit can do something but not much when you heavily changed vob content.

[TakuSkan]

Now all i want to do is replace the originals with these, and thats it.I've been attempting something similar on the thread I started here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=738011#post738011)

I was successful with the commercial trialware DdRemake that Dimad suggested here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=739064#post739064)

But I also had limited success using DVD Shrink and PGCEdit as r0lZ suggested here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=739073#post739073) and here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=739500#post739500)

Only problem with that last approach when I used it was that the pointers to all of the scenes in the scene menu at the beginning of the video didn't point to the right places in the clipped vobs anymore. I'm sure there must be a way to fix that though. Will have to search down the process(es) tho'.

TS

[CoNS]

No way, my friend!!
VOBS are Video Objects managed by IFOs. If you cut something out or edit then you have to edit the IFOs too. That's a job of authoring programs. The IFOs control playing of Vobs (video, audio, subtitles, chapters, timing). IFOedit can do something but not much when you heavily changed vob content.In most cases you can succesfully create the ifo files for the modified vobs using IfoEdit's "Create IFOs" function...

[w0rd™]

Yeah TakuSkan, I mentioned i read your thread, just a few different questions i had.


just to make it clearer, i already used dvdshrink to take out most stuff, except for the menu, movie and an extra clip.
DvdShrink gave me this folder(see attachment)

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1223/videotsfolder1xp.gif


i just edited scenes throughout(not too much) vts_01_1/2/3.VOB with womble and saved as a vob without any re-encoding, and want to replace the original vobs with these three.



Yep, VobBlanker's Replace PGC function should do the job.

If your original DVD contains only one PGC in the VTST in question, you may also use one of these methods:
Use PgcEdit's Replace Title function to copy the new vob files back in, or
Replace the vob files manually (in Windows Explorer) and use IfoUpdate or BatchUpdateIFO to update the ifo files for the VTST in question.

(The method using VobBlanker will work even if there's more than one PGC in the original VTST.)

In most cases you can succesfully create the ifo files for the modified vobs using IfoEdit's "Create IFOs" function...

So vobblankers replace pgc will do this for me?
also they ask for the authored or new ifo, but i havent authored anything as i just want to replace the original vobs, so do i have to 'create ifo' with ifoedit first for the new vobs, and then use IFOupdate/vobblanker's replace pgc, to correct it?
and does it have to create new vobs when creating new ifo's?

:thanks: again

[CoNS]

I don't know the program you have used for editing the VOB files, so it's a bit hard for me to help in the specific case.

But asuming that you have used the editing tool to save the plain VOB files containing the main movie and nothing else in a separate folder, this is what I would try if I were in your shoes:
Use the "Create IFOs" function in IfoEdit with those edited VOB files to create a new set of IFO files.
Test the newly created DVD (the VOB and IFO files) in a software DVD player. If it doesn't work, then the next steps won't work either.
Load your shrinked DVD (i.e. the DVD w/o the VOB editing) in VobBlanker and select the VTS (in the upper window) and the PGC (in the lower window) containing your main movie. Hit "Replace PGC", browse to the folder with the edited VOB files (and newly created IFO files) and select the VTS_xx_x.IFO file for the VTS containing the edited VOB files.

Please notice that even if this works for you, you may still encounter the same navigational problems as TakuSkan reported above:

Only problem with that last approach when I used it was that the pointers to all of the scenes in the scene menu at the beginning of the video didn't point to the right places in the clipped vobs anymore. I'm sure there must be a way to fix that though.This must be a common problem when cutting the VOB files, but I'm not sure how to fix this. With PgcEdit or IfoEdit, perhaps? Maybe some other users can give you some input on this?

EDIT: This post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=740086#post740086) by r0lZ may help you.

[w0rd™]

i attached the video_ts folder that has the edited vobs in it below, does the changed vob size cause any other problems?
I had those three vobs in a seperate folder aswell, and created ifo with ifoedit, it created a video_ts.ifo and vts_01_0.ifo, but when i used powerdvd to play that folder, it just stopped responding(used 99% cpu).

another thing i noticed, if I use powerdvd to play the original video_ts folder files with the three edited vobs, it plays, the menu is fine, it plays the special feature clip fine, it starts the movie fine(the edited one), i can go to next chapter all the way to the end of the movie, also i can press the 'step forward' button fine.
But if i press the 'step backward' button, click on the slider, use the jog dial(to speed up movie), pDVD stops responding and freezes. also when i click next chapter, even though the onscreen info shows 1/21, 2/21 etc.. the chapters on the powerdvd control stays on 01.

And if I open this same folder with vobblanker, VTS_01_*.VOB shows 4020mb ini size and 4279mb final size(the original dvdshrink folder has 4279mb for both). And if i choose the movie and go to prev/cut, i cant scan through the cells using the cell cursor bar(but i can with the original vobs).

[jsoto]

You have changed the VOB files, so all the references in the IFOs are wrong. Even more, the internal references in the VOB files are also wrong.

VobBlanker "Ini size" is calculated from the file sizes, but final size is calculated from the cell sizes (based in the ini and end sectors) stored in the IFOs

AFAIK, you cannot use IFOUpdate to fix them. The only two ways to proceed are:
a) Put all the VOB files in other folder and create IFOs. This method will not work in the case of multiple PGC in the VTS (unless each PGC has its own VID)
b) Do an IFOedit's mock strip. The most of the references will be fixed, although there are some (usually minor) drawbacks in this method.

Seems to me you are using the hard way to modify your VOBs...

jsoto

[w0rd™]

what would you advice on doing it an easier way? i used vobblanker to cut a scene, and it did everything perfect(although where the cut was made, if i go backwards in powerdvd there's a long pause, but ok when going forward), but i want to cut multiple scenes in the vob, also i used just one small 30sec effect, so i would prefer an easier method, but is there one?

thanks.
:)

[SeeMoreDigital]

ImageShack link test

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/3333/imagetest1ua.png

Image linking works fine for me in this section of the forum w0rd™


Cheers

EDIT: Moderator background information link: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=741026#post741026

[Humpty Dumpty]

"what would you advice on doing it an easier way?"

If I understand you correctly, you want to cut some scenes in a movie. Here's how I would do it (all freeware and available on this website):

1. Use Pgcedit to demux the cells you want to cut. That way you get the m2v- and the ac3-file (or whatever audio you have).
2. Import these to Cuttermaran and use that program to cut the cells where you want to.
3. Use Ifoedit or Muxman to reauthor your cells into vobs.
4. Use the replace-function in Vobblanker to replace your old cells with your new one's.

Come to think of it, why don't you just use the replace-function in Vobblanker to replace your old cells with the modified cells? But if that doesn't work, try what I suggested above. Or don't.

[jsoto]

Are you taking away scenes in the middle?. Yes, this can be a problem...

Sorry, I didn't notice you were censuring the movie :D ....

Seriously, I think you probably can fix it demuxing the whole PGC (at the end of the cut process) and muxing again with MuxMan. But I'm sure there will be some kind of problems (may be minor and negligible) just in the edges of the cuts.

In any case, it is not easy to do "many" cuts in the middle....

jsoto

[Dimad]

In any case, it is not easy to do "many" cuts in the middle....

Not with DvdReMake :p

[w0rd™]

thanks again everyone for the replies.

Come to think of it, why don't you just use the replace-function in Vobblanker to replace your old cells with the modified cells? But if that doesn't work, try what I suggested above. Or don't.

its just that all i had was the vobs(not cells extracts-dvdshrink 1gb vob splits), and no ifo's, i tried creating ifo's but i didnt turn out to well,as i mentioned in an earlier post, so i guess i just have to demux and remux them all, as they just dont work properly the way womble saves the vobs.

Sorry, I didn't notice you were censuring the movie ....
:p

Seriously, I think you probably can fix it demuxing the whole PGC (at the end of the cut process) and muxing again with MuxMan. But I'm sure there will be some kind of problems (may be minor and negligible) just in the edges of the cuts.

well i opened the original dvdshrink folder with vobblanker, and i extracted the first cell, opened with womble, did the small effect again, saved the vob untouched(except it does a small re-encode where the effect is, but not the scene cuts).
I then demuxed it, and then muxed with muxman. Opened the dvdshrink folder with vobblanker again, replaced the first cell with the edited vob, and then processed it.
The final result was good, the chapters worked properly and the edited first cell played fine. The only problem i could see was if i rewinded using the powerdvd shuttle, it would pause for 3-5secs at the end of the first chapter, sometimes even just sit there until i pressed play again. I did another test using vobblanker to cut a scene(didnt use any cell replace), and the same thing happend.

I also tried DvdReMake pro demo to cut several scenes throughout the movie, and any chapter that has a scene cut out also pauses for 5secs only while rewinding, just like vobblanker, while the original in powerdvd doesn't pause. I found this strange.

just want to point out, if i just replace the cell with the vob that womble outputs, the time and slider report wrong when i playback in powerdvd:
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/9474/pdvdcellreplace0jr.gif


If i demux/remux the womble vob before replacing the cell in vobblanker, it works normally:
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7429/pdvdog3ck.gif

edit- also forgot to mention, when i replaced the cell in vobblanker, it gave no warnings or errors, but when i replaced block in dvdremake, it completed the task properly but gave me this info in the log:
Replace block >> different streams (1412:AngleBlockListExView.cpp)


Anyway, next im going to try demuxing all three edited vobs, but do i also put the other 2 un-edited vts_01_*.vobs(4&5) in the same folder aswell and then demux, so that i can replace the title properly in vobblanker?

:thanks:

[jsoto]

Originally Posted by jsoto
In any case, it is not easy to do "many" cuts in the middle....
Not with DvdReMake :p

I was thinking in the related VOB problems, not if it is easy or not to do in the GUI.
IMHO, it's really difficult to do a cut inside a cell. To be "perfect" you need to cut the video at VOBU level (easy) but cut the audio taking into account the relative pts. Not so easy. Also, the following PTSs and SCRs have to be corrected. Nothig of this is done by VobBlanker, which only fixes the elapsed time and cut the scenes in a "brute" way ( complete VOBUs, w/o analyzing the audio ). Even more, you have to take into account the subs. May be you are cutting the VOBU containing the sub, but it should be shown during the following secs, so you should re-mux it in one of the following VOBUs...Really difficult.


just want to point out, if i just replace the cell with the vob that womble outputs, the time and slider report wrong when i playback in powerdvd:

Did you check the "Fix elapsed time replacing cells" option?. You must do it, because you replacing cell has been processed externally...

jsoto

[w0rd™]

Did you check the "Fix elapsed time replacing cells" option?. You must do it, because you replacing cell has been processed externally...

jsoto

i ticked that, but the first chapter that i replaced still shows wrong time and slider position. If i demux/remux first, its okay.
This is what's ticked when i try replacing the cell without demuxing first(which doesnt work right):

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2702/vbsettings9yn.gif
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4039/vbmoresettings7pl.gif


just for reference these are the setting that womble use when it exports edited vobs unchanged:
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9962/wombleoptionsexport3sa.gif
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5278/wombleoptionsav2mw.gif
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6048/wombleexportexpert6cf.gif



So if i export the vobs with womble(with the above settings), and use the vob to replace cell in vobblanker it wont work properly(DvdReMake doesn't event accept the vob), but if i demux/remux the edited vob first, both vobblanker and dvdremake accept it.
the only problem i have after this with both the vobblanker and dvdremake exports, is like i stated above, that when rewinding in powerdvd it has a 5sec pause(sometimes even getting stuck), when trying to rewind into a cell that has been replaced/cut.

[jsoto]

the only problem i have after this with both the vobblanker and dvdremake exports, is like i stated above, that when rewinding in powerdvd it has a 5sec pause(sometimes even getting stuck), when trying to rewind into a cell that has been replaced/cut.
Replacing cells in the middle of a seamless PGC results in a not fully compliant VOB (at least with VobBlanker) . So drawbacks like the one you are describing are quite "normal".
May be you can fix the problem demuxing by PGC, remuxing again (using Celltimes) and replacing the PGC with VB. But, in any case, there will be some issues with the audio (probably minor or negligible)

jsoto