HC Encoder Over CCE?

[sinister6]

Anyone using HC Encoder over CCE with DVD Rebuilder?

I know it takes double the encoding time, but isn't the quality significantly better?

[Carpo]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=99742&page=2

post 24

[elizerrojas]

Anyone using HC Encoder over CCE with DVD Rebuilder?

I know it takes double the encoding time, but isn't the quality significantly better?
i use HC, and although it is slower than CCE, its quality is as good as CCE and at times better. i used to use CCE basic, it is also very good. there is not need to spend $58 on CCE.

[dvdbackup]

i use HC, and although it is slower than CCE, its quality is as good as CCE and at times better. i used to use CCE basic, it is also very good. there is not need to spend $58 on CCE.


1) That's comparing it to CCE basic.... not to CCE SP...

2) HC has a serious encoding bug. When you play a movie in reverse direction there are disorted picture frames...... What is the point of discussing quality of a encoder that even can't generate correct MPEG streams ??, or better even produces corrupted MPEG streams ?????

See no point in that one......

[Rockas]

@dvdbackup
HC Encoder is in a Beta stage... this means it is Beta :)

Reading your words... I just can't wait for a "dvdbackup Encoder"... it will be perfect even in Beta stage... I'm pretty sure ;)

[elizerrojas]

1) That's comparing it to CCE basic.... not to CCE SP...

2) HC has a serious encoding bug. When you play a movie in reverse direction there are disorted picture frames...... What is the point of discussing quality of a encoder that even can't generate correct MPEG streams ??, or better even produces corrupted MPEG streams ?????

See no point in that one......
no, i'm also talking about the CCE SP. HC is as good and sometimes better. you play movies in reverse direction? wow. i don't. that's why HC look so good to me.

[roux]

you play movies in reverse direction? wow. i don't. that's why HC look so good to me.

lol :)

You may want to give Procoder a try, i like this encoder for lower bitrates. I did saving private ryan at a low avg bitrate (2800) and the result was very sharp without any blockiness.

I'm also using HC and from what i have seen the results are similar or better then CCE.

[Harrysmiith]

1) That's comparing it to CCE basic.... not to CCE SP...

2) HC has a serious encoding bug. When you play a movie in reverse direction there are disorted picture frames...... What is the point of discussing quality of a encoder that even can't generate correct MPEG streams ??, or better even produces corrupted MPEG streams ?????

See no point in that one......

I know I'm gonna regret this but

why would I want to "play a movie in reverse direction" ?

As to the original question - I paid my $58 for CCE Basic but now use HC with a few basic filters and as I rarely watch the output at 8X zoom thinks its great

[FredThompson]

CCE 5-pass on high-motion gives more/larger blocks than CCE 2-pass. ProCoder mastering quality gave smaller than either. However, HC 2-pass is faster than ProCoder mastering and work well at medium to high bitrates. With low bitrates, ProCoder looks a little better because it has less distortion around edges. The distortion amount is about the same as HC, just a different location, so to speak. I noticed ProCoder will give some odd corruption in relatively smooth areas of animation where HC did not at low bitrates. CCE looks horrible at low bitrates and doens't handle interlaced source as well as HC or ProCoder. No navigation problem with reverse play and PowerDVD. Good decoder = good results. Bad decoder = bad results.

[roux]

Also, i think procoder has some kind of smoothner by default on. I've had a few source's with a bit grainy and it came out with less grain.

[FredThompson]

I used this script on Heavy Metal NTSC which is a very grainy transfer:

ConvertToYUY2()
PeachSmoother()
convertToYV12()
DeGrainMedian(limitY=5,limitUV=10,mode=0)
Msmooth()

Tests were done on the same segment and with Msmooth only, Msmooth and DeGrainMedian, then all three. They removed a lot of the grain and color swim but the ProCoder result was almost the same with or without the script. This makes me wonder if there is something related to edge detection in how ProCoder does the compression, not just pre-filtering.

I dd not keep the framegrabs from testing various filters and such because nothing worked well with a target bitrate of 1/2 the original size. A better transfer or natural images would have done better because there would be far less false motion (noisy transfer) or fewer sharp edges. I've removed the full-length rough sketch (onion skin and some complete frames) from the set because it didn't seem like something worth keeping so could simulate the results by restricting DVD-RB Pro's max destination size but couldn't perfectly duplicate them.

[dvdbackup]

I know I'm gonna regret this but

why would I want to "play a movie in reverse direction" ?

As to the original question - I paid my $58 for CCE Basic but now use HC with a few basic filters and as I rarely watch the output at 8X zoom thinks its great


Nope, you not gonna use reverse direction.....But you look at 8* zoom..... Yep, I got it :p

[dvdbackup]

CCE 5-pass on high-motion gives more/larger blocks than CCE 2-pass. ProCoder mastering quality gave smaller than either. However, HC 2-pass is faster than ProCoder mastering and work well at medium to high bitrates. With low bitrates, ProCoder looks a little better because it has less distortion around edges. The distortion amount is about the same as HC, just a different location, so to speak. I noticed ProCoder will give some odd corruption in relatively smooth areas of animation where HC did not at low bitrates. CCE looks horrible at low bitrates and doens't handle interlaced source as well as HC or ProCoder. No navigation problem with reverse play and PowerDVD. Good decoder = good results. Bad decoder = bad results.


Reverse play disruption is a known bug and also agreed to by the Author......

I hope you love the 5000 backup's you've already on DVD.......... :p

[DK]

Reverse play disruption is a known bug and also agreed to by the Author......

I hope you love the 5000 backup's you've already on DVD..........

i'm glad that hardly ever do i have to read so much crap in these entire forums like i have read from a couple of your replies

[feedback]

i'm glad that hardly ever do i have to read so much crap in these entire forums like i have read from a couple of your replies
I agree with you DK. ;)

As dvdbackup appears to have a bad attitude.

Concerning dvdbackup's diatribe, I also agree with Amnon82 Here, (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=731374&postcount=3) in addition to neuron2 Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=731451&postcount=7) and lastly FredThompson Here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=727838&postcount=12)
Regards,:)

[dvdbackup]

I agree with you DK. ;)

As dvdbackup appears to have a bad attitude.

Concerning dvdbackup's diatribe, I also agree with Amnon82 Here, (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=731374&postcount=3) in addition to neuron2 Here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=731451&postcount=7) and lastly FredThompson Here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=727838&postcount=12)
Regards,:)


I thought youre signed with "DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING FIRST VERIFY", or something like that.

Probably not trying HC, because it's not about bad attitude, it's about the FACTS you so dearly seem to love........

Even yesterday I tried HC again and my sony DVD-PLAYER even switched off using reverse direction.......... and yep it's a SONY one, never having any problem with CCE.......

If you want such DVD's, use HC and try to compare the compressing results using forwards and bachwards stepping, then you'll see, because that's what I tried.

HC is better in encoding from what I've seen in normal playback, but useless as long as these bugs are in it, that's my point. And if the bugs are gone, what about compressing results then ???

And for all that don't believe ask HANK about the bug(s) there are.

Or better, let me quote him:

Quote:
I tried HC-encoder and it even generates bugs in the MPEG stream.

Bugs in the MPEG stream? Could you be more specific what kind of bugs except not playing reverse correct.


Quote:
CCE SP has a long development history and costs about 1995,-.
But HC is still Beta, and using Beta has risks.....


Both are absolutely true...
Using beta freeware is a risky business, but it is free

That was HANK's answer, anobody any questions ?????

Thank you.....

[DK]

ok, let's agree on this:

you enjoy your cce sp version, which you spent $2000 on and the rest of us will enjoy latest hc betas and its excellent value for *money*

because all of us seem to be f******s and you're the only one here with necessary intelligence i suggest we leave it at that

[roux]

If you don't like HC don't use it, whats the big deal.

[elizerrojas]

again. CCE SP or whatever=money, lots of money, depending on which one you buy.
HC as good or better than money, lots of money, depending on which one you buy.
since i don't watch my movies in reverse or whatever dvdbackup means, and since HC while watching you movie like the rest of us watch them, look so good, and since HC cost nothing, i'll stick with HC.

[dvdbackup]

If the quality of HC will be as from what I've seen and the bugs are gone, even I'm going to use it, despite of what I've spend on CCE or not.

But I prefer dvd-compliant backups over a player getting messed up playing fast/slow reverse.....

The intention was just to point out the bugs in HC which make it useless for DVD-compliant backups AT THIS MOMENT.........


End of discussion.....

[elizerrojas]

quote"fast/slow reverse....."
quote" DVD-compliant backups AT THIS MOMENT........."
i'm out of here.

[rendez2k]

Talking of HC, is anyone using 0.16 with DVD-RB? Is there any benifit?

[Harrysmiith]

I've only been using HC for a couple of weeks but so far have had no problems.
Unfortunately I don't have a sony but I do have 3 stand alones ( Liteon, LG and Pioneer) plus 3 re-writers ( BenQ1640, 1620 and Plextor 716A).

If by problems with reverse direction you mean going to the end of a movie and then "rewinding" I have not been able to replicate the problem.

Perhaps this is an issue with Sony rather than HC ?

Has anyone else found that they can not reverse to an earlier scene ?

[elizerrojas]

hey, my dvd standalone is sony, no problems yet. thats because i don't watch movies on reverse. i do fast foward though, specially with the pornos LOL..

[raquete]

hey, my dvd standalone is sony, no problems yet. thats because i don't watch movies on reverse. i do fast foward though, specially with the pornos LOL..
lol...reverse for pornos is really useless.
this not means that HC is best for pornos,right?! LOL....

oh no, this was one good thread when start :p

[FredThompson]

Guys,

Just add dvdbackup to your ignore list in the User CP. It's the first time I've had to do this in about 2 years. No sense in feeding the troll.

[m1ckran]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

I'm glad I joined Doom9. Haven't laughed so much for ages!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[dragongodz]

Or better, let me quote him:
That was HANK's answer, anobody any questions ?????
ok well i will throw a quote from hank315 right back at you then.
@dvdbackup
You reported this already in the DVD-RB forum, so it's old news.
If people report a valid error I will always try to fix it but for now this one is not in that category.
this comes from
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=102110
which YOU started but have not gone back and replied to. so provide hank315 with real information and you may get somewhere. simply badmouthing HC doesnt fix any possible bugs or help make improvements. its ungrateful attitudes like this that make people wonder why the hell they bother spending all the hours they do writing software.

[neuron2]

@DK

I'd guess you have several hours in which to edit out the profanity before you get struck for rule 4.

[FredThompson]

Perhaps this is an issue with Sony rather than HC ?Sony has a somewhat notorious reputation for sticking to the DVD specs which use a subset of legal MPEG2, so to speak. Other makes tend to me more inclusive of legal MPEG2. This is why Sony DVD players tend to hate 2/3 D1 source. I've got a localized version of an IEEE article which discussed some simple mods to cheapo DVD players to give far better results for audio and video quality. The original is no longer on the IEEE website.

@neuron2, do you want to mirror the pages? Check your email.

[dragongodz]

This is why Sony DVD players tend to hate 2/3 D1 source.
by that do you mean 480x480(576) ? if so then that isnt a legal dvd resolution of course. as such no manufacturor is required to support that when done as dvd. you cant really complain that they dont support an out of spec resolution even if others do.

Sony has a somewhat notorious reputation for sticking to the DVD specs which use a subset of legal MPEG2, so to speak.
again sticking to specs cant really be complained about. however sony has more of a reputation to being hyper sensative to anything that pushes the boundries of the specs. that is a stream that is still in spec but only just(because of max bitrate or MV lengths or sudden jump in bitrate etc) can cause some models of sonys to have some playback issues.
its not only sony though, certain models of panasonic for example have also been known to show the same behaviour.

the real issue is that dvdbackup has provided next to nothing information to go from. ok he said he has a sony but what model, how old ? has he tried other encoders besides CCE to see if they have problems ? has he tried other authoring programs to rule these out as a factor ? etc etc etc. so far all i see is some complaining and very little real information. ;)

[FredThompson]

I'm not complaining about Sony. They sell players which are certified to meet the specs. What that really means is another issue.

The DVD specs are "minimum requirements" not "maximum capability." There's a slight disconnect between Sony's reputation for quality and the frustration people have when they try to run non-standard stuff on the Sony.

Personally, I like JVC as a brand but that's just me...

[DK]

I'd guess you have several hours in which to edit out the profanity before you get struck for rule 4.

i'll be glad to do so if that's all that is needed in order to turn this thread into something useful again

[dragongodz]

The DVD specs are "minimum requirements" not "maximum capability."
for the player yes. they are also a maximum for the encode aswell of course. ;)

There's a slight disconnect between Sony's reputation for quality and the frustration people have when they try to run non-standard stuff on the Sony.
yes i generally ignore when people complain about something out of spec not working on any hardware. this however isnt about that. this is really about HC producing compliant streams and if so then where may his problem be.

some things we dont know(or maybe i missed them)
1. what version of HC ?
2. what version of DVD-RB ?
3. what model sony and age ?
4. what settings used for both ?
5. did he try changing any settings ?
6. has he done tests with other software, eg. authoring a HC encode to dvd with a different program(such as muxman) and still had problems or not ?

i could keep going but that should cover some basic sort of stuff that a person should post if they seriously wanted help and/or to help identify a possible problem in a program.

[FredThompson]

I think you're feeding the troll. Look at the thread where I made the "classic position" statement. It's a waste of time to treat this person seriously until they act responsibly. Humor is one thing, malicious behavior is another. No sense in rewarding it. FWIW, my typical response to people who continually run into problems with a particular DVD player is, "Buy a different player. Your time is worth more than it will cost."

[dragongodz]

I think you're feeding the troll.
hmm and i think i could easily accuse others in this thread of doing that much more than i. i have not tried to argue with him but suggested how to post a proper bug report. :D

It's a waste of time to treat this person seriously until they act responsibly.
however it is not a waste to tell them what they should do,such as give proper information, so they can be taken seriously and get help if they really do need it.

its all rather irrelevant however unless dvdbackup is willing to think about whats been said and make the effort to reply properly. if he just continues to throw out the same types of statements or not reply at all then his own actions will make it clear to all what his intent was. so lets just wait and see if he follows this up or not and how.

[neuron2]

i'll be glad to do so if that's all that is needed in order to turn this thread into something useful again Adherence to forum rules is not negotiable.

[ron spencer]

what could me messed in the MPEG stream that would not allow reverse play?

[Rippraff]

@ron spencer
A restriction in PUO like "Backward scan"

Cu Rippraff

[neuron2]

Is that not a multiplexing issue rather than an MPEG2 syntax issue?

[Rippraff]

Donald, your probably right, I interpreted this as a general question.
It's really hard to get the essential thing in this thread. :D

Cu Rippraff

[FredThompson]

Adherence to forum rules is not negotiable.I don't think he was arguing. He changed the post pretty quickly. I saw it more as playful exasperation, IOW, "fine, let's get things back on track."

We don't really have an emoticon or little graphic for that. Maybe one of these? http://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/Smiley-Naughty.gifhttp://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/Smiley-Wacko.gifhttp://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/Smiley-RollEyes.gifhttp://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/Smiley-Whistle.gifhttp://home.mindspring.com/~fredthompson/Smiley-Tongue.gif

[jdobbs]

Is that not a multiplexing issue rather than an MPEG2 syntax issue?Absolutely. It it won't play backwards its a lot more likely that the cause is in the NAVPACKS than in the MPEG stream...

[dvdbackup]

Let's go back to the start en evaluate what happened:

HC Encoder over CCE......

1) A lot of people were verry happy with HC's quality....
2) I just showed another aspect of "quality", that's the quality of the DVD reencoded with HC and what you get with it. A DVD with bugs in it, that causes problem's when playing back in at LEAST the Sony player (which I always use to compare DVD-BACKUP quality, hence using a lot slow forward/backwards stepping to see how many blocks there are to count :) ), using fast/slow reverse functions.
3) A lot of irrelevant and personalized abusive comments and feedback to my direction, which I didn't ask for. I think it's because of the people who are frustrated about HC's bug, taking it out on me. Sorry guys, that's youre own ignorance, not mines....
4) Some people getting awareness of the bug and wanted to know more about it, that was all I wanted to add in the first place. There is no way of comfortable driving, if the car won't start (too black/white, I admit).

FACT: HC has the Bug, but encoding is better.

FACT: CCE hasn't this bug, but encoding is worse on lower bitrates.

That's all there is....

Just shouting 'HC is better or as good as CCE/CCE SP' is like looking with one eye. I used the second eye too.

Probably this was too much for some people to handle, not my problem.

Just the x people more aware of ALL the FACTS including reverse playback problems when using HC , is more important to me then personalized negative remarks in my direction from some persons that are making fools of them selves.

I really ignore these messages (although REPORT some of them ehich are really disturbing and really have nothing to do with 'HC over CCE', were it was all about finally).

So now probably everyone who has read the posts will now know the consequences of using HC as it is at this moment....

That's all I ever wanted to add in addition to the 'oh my god HC is free and so so much better then CCE' shouting, which some people like to do all over the forum and not just in this post.

Luckely those people add me to their ignore list, so I will not get any comments like these here in this thread in the future...... I'
ll stick to that one (bye bye freddy !) :)

I still hope Hank will soon release HC without this problem, because to be honest, I just gonna give it a serious try again, and when HC wins, it just wins.

There will be people not using reverse as they claim (that why every remote control has this button , I pressume ??!!!), and they can go on verry happy with it.

Also there will be people not so glad with this bug and not using HC while this is a topic.

[ron spencer]

the poster said the video looked poor on reverse...a PUOP would not affect reverse quality as you would not be able to see it ;-)

[dvdbackup]

for the player yes. they are also a maximum for the encode aswell of course. ;)


yes i generally ignore when people complain about something out of spec not working on any hardware. this however isnt about that. this is really about HC producing compliant streams and if so then where may his problem be.

some things we dont know(or maybe i missed them)
1. what version of HC ?
2. what version of DVD-RB ?
3. what model sony and age ?
4. what settings used for both ?
5. did he try changing any settings ?
6. has he done tests with other software, eg. authoring a HC encode to dvd with a different program(such as muxman) and still had problems or not ?

i could keep going but that should cover some basic sort of stuff that a person should post if they seriously wanted help and/or to help identify a possible problem in a program.

Hank is not interested in the problem, so I don't go into doing things that are not helpfull..........

I just warn for this problem, I don't use HC for this and only this reason, because a DVD-compliant DVD DOES PLAY correctly, even if I do reverse only for the whole movie.......

And all CCE encoded discs work fine on the same player......


Why spend more time on it ????

Don't see the point.

A lot of people don't believe it anyway, so let it just be.....

The future will tell.....

[neuron2]

@dvdbackup

Please state the nature of the claimed "bug" in HC. In other words, what MPEG2 syntax violation or DVD non-compliance are you claiming?

Please link to the post where you claim that Hank has acknowledged a bug in HC that causes your issue.

@Hank

Are you in fact aware of any violation of MPEG2 syntax by HC when creating DVD compliant streams that can account for this problem?

@all

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

[elizerrojas]

quote"Is anyone else experiencing this problem?"
i have a sony dvdplayer, no problems here.

[roux]

I just did a test with a disc i encoded with HC and it plays perfectly and also no problems with scanning backwards.

And dvd playback has nothing to do with the mpeg stream but with the navpacks just as jdobbs mentioned. So i would say dvdbackup is doing something wrong with is backup method.

[dvdbackup]

@dvdbackup

Please state the nature of the claimed "bug" in HC. In other words, what MPEG2 syntax violation or DVD non-compliance are you claiming?

Please link to the post where you claim that Hank has acknowledged a bug in HC that causes your issue.




I cannot go into the technical details, as I'm just not in to that....

I don't wanna know either....

I just want to make backups of the most highest quality that are compatible with EVERY player in the market (as far as they comply to the standards and do function well).

Why ? Simply because now I have a Sony player and maybe tomorrow I have a different brand. Don't want to be 'pleased' noticing my backups are not OK.


For Hanks acknowledment, see thread "Should i change matrix on high compression ratio?" were he implied he DOES know about the reverse error......


I see the problem on my Sony DVD player model DSP-NS405.

I'm 99.9% (always be carefull) it's HC...

I always use this player and it NEVER gives any problems except with HC encoded DVD-RW's I use constantly. The exact same DVD's I use for CCE encoded checkings, before deciding to burn on a DVD-R. It's a set of 5 discs I always use, so it isn't media/player related.

The only variable factor was the use of HC.

Now I just even tried a sample form LORD OF THE RINGS THE 2 TOWERS, and AGAIN playing revrse is corrupted at some points.

It can however play fine reverse for just a while, and then suddenly gives something like "a B or P frame, without the corresponding I frame" effect.

So pure blocks on a black background.

It's always at the same spot if you have youre hands on it.

AND EVEN MORE WIERD THINGS HAPPEN:

While playing a HC encoded disc in reverse step by step once, it even SWITCHED OF totally !!!! I was suprised and tryed again. Every time at exactly the same spot in reverse the player DID switch off at this point....


I'm ABSOLUTELY sure it isn't the player.....

There are some weird things happening.

I have tried HC encoding different times, and this was ALWAYS a problem on the Sony.

Never have had any trouble using CCE.
Never have had any trouble using original DVD's.

The two facts above makes me thinking it's clearly a HC problem.

Version of DVD-RB-PRO: 1.01final (yep, have to update).
Version of HC: 0.15 Beta. (yep, probably have to update too).

Now I'm making a new LORD OF THE RINGS sample.

I'll try it on the Sony to see the problems first.

Then a try 2 different players.

It's possible it's only Sony related....... But then again 1 is 1 2 much !!

[DK]

I think it's because of the people who are frustrated about HC's bug

sorry to disagree but nobody is frustrated here and nobody could reproduce that so called bug so far

so i for one would like some kind of a proof before even thinking about the usefullness of your statements any longer

and for the record:
i have burned one of the testruns i did with hc 016 testrelease 3 last night
no matter how often i fastforwarded or played the title in different reverse-speeds i couldnt spot any such thing as a flaw

a different title with hc 016 testrelease 2 showed the very same results: no problems in reverse mode either

[Trahald]

Ive used hcenc multiple times and wouldnt have known about the bug until reading this thread (example of how often i watch a movie in reverse) i think it does excellent quality on low bitrate and prefer it over cce. i assume the risk using beta software.

per your original reply.. i think its more how you stated it than what you said. your subsequent replies were much more factual than inflamatory. also, i dont think the bug disqualifies hcenc. it can be factored into an opinion.. (just like if you were doing an operating system comparison, you would not disqualify one because it crashed occasionally.. you just take that fact into consideration)

[jdobbs]

@Trahald

Have you been able to repeat the "reverse bug"? The reason I ask is because if it is repeatable I could at least check and see if DVD-RB is the source of the problem (since it does the muxing).

@dvdbackup

Did you previously post under the name apfraats? Your style of writing etc. sure seems to match his.

[DK]

@ jdobbs

the two tested titles i talked about were done via rb
- 1.02 with hc 016 TR 3
- 1.00 rc5.1 with hc 016 TR 2

[dvdbackup]

@Trahald

Have you been able to repeat the "reverse bug"? The reason I ask is because if it is repeatable I could at least check and see if DVD-RB is the source of the problem (since it does the muxing).

@dvdbackup

Did you previously post under the name apfraats? Your style of writing etc. sure seems to match his.

Nope........

I don't even know him.., eehhh sorry her....

[dvdbackup]

Let's get down to the facts, even now I'm confused about what's happening.

1) First of all: It's about REVERSE STEPPING AT SPEEDS LOWER THEN 1 !!

So I didn't look at the FAST REVERSE .......

I made a sample of LORD OF THE RINGS, FELOOWSHIP OF THE RING.

For testing purposes I adjusted both TARGETSECTORS to the same value, getting a compression of about 66,7 % for video.

I used the same standard MPGEG matrix. I used NO AVS filters.

I made 2 DVD's.

The DVD's are FUJI DVD-RW at 4 speed.

I verfied the recordings, no read-errors.

So 2 DVD's in priciple the same except for the encoder used.

I call then HC_DVD and CCE_DVD for reference purposes.

First the testing on the Sony DVP-NS-405.

HC_DVD on the Sony
===============================================
Looked at the movie. Pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS and let it go.
RESULT: Suddenly there was a still (reverse is always producing stills) with blocks on a black background.
I let it go. The stills were correct again. Then after just a while THE COMPLETE PLAYER DID A POWER OFF !!! (don't blame me, blame Sony).
================================================

CCE_DVD on the Sony.
================================================
Looked at the movie. Pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS and let it go.
RESULT: Nice and clean playback of stills in reverse direction.
=================================================

That's strange for one thing, What has to be on a DVD to COMPLETELY POWER THE PLAYER OFF !!!
(probably something not DVD-COMPLIANT happened, and the player gets so confused it turns off as a result of an UNDOCUMENTED firmware features ;)

HC_DVD on PHILIPS DVDR-75
===================================================
Looked at the movie, pressed pause after 2 minutes. Press STEP BACKWARDS at 1/2 speed. Stills are NOT DISTURBED but something else happens.
The playback of stills in reverse is irregular, meaning the time between stills at 1/2 backwards is CHANGING a lot... Sometimes it takes relatively much longer to do 1/2 back, and sometimes there is a very quick follow up.....
Normal 1/2 speed step time is about 1 second regular.
But the HC_DVD was doing this very irregular.
No disorted picture however on this player
=====================================================

CCE_DVD on PHILIPS DVDR-75
======================================================
Looked at the movie, pressed pause after 2 minutes. Pressed STEP BACKWARDS at 1/2 speed. Stills are NOT DISTURBED but something else happens. The playback of stills in reverse is irregular, meaning the time between stills at 1/2 backwards is CHANGING a lot... Sometimes it takes relatively much longer to do 1/2 back, and sometimes there is a very quick follow up.....
Normal 1/2 speed step time is about 1 second regular.
But the HC_DVD was doing this very irregular.
No disorted picture however on this player.
=======================================================

Note: The 1/2 slow reverse of the SONY displays TWICE as MUCH stills as the PHILIPS and the interval time is very stable.

However looking at an original DVD, this DVD produced steady stills in 1/2 speed reverse, but the still-rate is only half that of the sony.

So the SONY produces 2 stills / second at 1/2 reverse (< 1 sec to be more precise)
And the PHILIPS prodiuces only 1 still / second at 1/2 reverse.

The PHILIPS is NOT steady in intervals at reverse 1/2 on both CCE and HC dvd's, but is steady on an original DVD.

The Sony, taking twice as much 'snaphots' a second, shows image disruption in reverse 1/2 speed with the HC_DVD. The PHILIPS does not.

The Sony even SHUTS DOWN reverse playing the HC_DVD, but NOT playing the CCE_DVD.


So the problem is probably related to some far too much technical aspect for me to discover.

Let people try.

HC_DVD is causing problems on the SONY. Both HC_DVD and CCE_DVD have irregular 1/2 speed reverse intervals. The tested Original DVD doens't have this problem.

Easy to say it's my Sony here.....

But I really don't believe it's the PLAYER....

All original commercial DVD's don't have problems, as the Sony is my default player to look and use for DVD's in my living room. I use it for many years already.... And these phenomenia are completely new and discovered using HC as encoder.

I tested the burned DVD_RW's each three times. 100% reproduceable.

The corruption problem and the POWER-OFF of the player happens everytime at the same spots with the HC_DVD, not with the CCE_DVD !!!

So clearly:

It's making a difference if HC is used or CCE on my Sony DVP-NS405

All backup's have irregular 1/2 speed reverse playback intervals on the PHILIPS. Originals (2 tested) don't (as far as I tested, I can do it for another evening, but I'm not planning for that).

So please forgive me if it turns out not to be an HC problem....

As far as I can see and test, using HC is causing serious problems on the SONY....

I don't know why, but I just don't trust on making backups with HC for this reason. If I would have any doubt towards my Sony DVP-NS405, I would tell, but heaving it playing for so long, this is just really weird.....

So people , if there is someone with the DVP-NS405 or a Sony player, I would like to hear from you, using HC and playing back revers 1/2 speed backwards (I always do things that are abnormal for the huge)

I play on save, not using HC, and that I regret regarding it's potential.....


Note to think about: At 1/2 reverse speed the Sony produces lots more stills per unit of real-time than the Philips does. Maybe that's why it's more critical on the Sony.......

[spyhawk]

@dvdbackup,

Really. How do you know it's a she? afraat's and your style of writing look the same. And the tone does not sound like a girl talking. An admin or mod can look at the ip address of both posters and know. I'm surprised also that afraat has not been making posts since you recently joined. Any way, if you are not really the same person, then sorry if we're mistaken.

Back to the discussion. Since you are having problem reverse playback with HC and none here don't, may I suggest you get a sizable clip that is repeatable and has problem reverse playback. Narrow it down to a sizable whole dvd structure, as if you're burning to DVD-RW. Zip it up and upload somewhere, so anyone with a fast connection and a Sony player (may not be the same model like yours, but if it's the same, that's great) can test it on their dvd player. If they have the same problem like yours, then it could be the probable cause. Otherwise, HC is not the cause. Tell us at what point in time you start having problem reversing so we can duplicate.

YouSendIt.com (http://www.yousendit.com) allows you to upload up to 1GB and 25 downloads. If you know of a better web host, then use it. For compression, use 7-Zip (www.7-zip.org) program to zip. It has better compression than WinZip and WinRar. But it's up to you if you want to use it or not.

[dvdbackup]

@dvdbackup,

Really. How do you know it's a she? afraat's and your style of writing look the same. And the tone does not sound like a girl talking. An admin or mod can look at the ip address of both posters and know. I'm surprised also that afraat has not been making posts since you recently joined. Any way, if you are not really the same person, then sorry if we're mistaken.


I don't know if it's a he or she..... That'was the point......

And even IP adresses don't tell everything.
Never heard of a ANONYOUS PROXY ???? I suppose not.
Never heard of IP sharing ? Probably not.
Never heard of Dynamically assigned IP adresses on a network ?

But that's of topic.

I have a clip ready for go.....

I use RAR to pack them togther and can send it with yousendit.com to everyone who has an email-adres.

I know about yousendit.com. If you keep on trying even over 20 times, you will finally get it send, indeed.........

No problem with that.

Now I need only a e-mail adres from someone who has this particular player.

Suppose that's easy too.......

By the way, this IP is used by about 500 different people..........


And another thought just came up...

How about the question: Is sending a clip from a movie LEGAL ???

[Observer]

@dvdbackup

Was the autogop option in HC enabled?

[dvdbackup]

@dvdbackup

Was the autogop option in HC enabled?


Nice question, I never touch the GOP-things.....

DVD-RB-PRO's setting is Default (or auto).

[jdobbs]

It would have been autoGOP then...

[neuron2]

apfraats suspended 13th October.
dvdbackup joined 13th October.
And he doth protesteth too much.

Multiple registrations are a rule 14 violation. I've requested the admins to check the IP addresses.

[dvdbackup]

apfraats suspended 13th October.
dvdbackup joined 13th October.
And he doth protesteth too much.

Multiple registrations are a rule 14 violation. I've requested the admins to check the IP addresses.

Yep, be my guest.......

I think this will surely solve the HC problem.....

[spyhawk]

I don't know if it's a he or she..... That'was the point......

And even IP adresses don't tell everything.
Never heard of a ANONYOUS PROXY ???? I suppose not.
Never heard of IP sharing ? Probably not.
Never heard of Dynamically assigned IP adresses on a network ?
*long sigh* I have a feeling that this response would happen. I should not have posted in here, but I was just trying to help. Since you're trying to insult my intelligence, I know trace routing and heard of backdoor bypass. You know, there are lots of smart people here, so don't try to get on their nerves if you need help. But I admit you are a good candidate to test our limits. Last I check, blood pressure is within normal parameter.

Oh well, what's done is done. Please retake Communication 101, feel free to come back to this community upon graduation.

[gizzin]

How's about we close this thread?

[jdobbs]

I agree. This has gotten way OT and is no longer serving a purpose. Closed.