RV10 is dead ... ???

[Sagittaire]

Last improuvment: october 2004 with winter build ... !

Real use aac for audio codec
Why not a new H264 video codec for RV11 ... ???

[karl_lillevold]

It is not likely there will be any updates to RV10. It is stable and there are no open bugs. We are working hard on another project, and have no spare resources to continue improving RV10.

[bond]

me notes that an avc codec would rock! ;)

[Sirber]

It would rock what? x264 and ateme are pretty strong and implemented in user methodology. It would merely be "just another AVC codec" in your 30 codec list...

[guada 2]

Hello Karl, :)

"another project" ( Karl ):

it must be a big project. It is very interesting for Real.

a small question:
- is this project in the optics of the Divx or the x264?

NOTE: Sorry, I forgot that it was a project.

Bye.

[Sirber]

Do you mean "MPEG4 or H264" ?

Both are inferior to RV10 ;)

[iwod]

something based on wavelet? Build from ground up?

May be no RV11.......... but Helix Video Codec?

[guada 2]

Hello sirber, :)

"Both are inferior to RV10"
I would not say that. But......

When I spoke about Divx. I thought about an extension of the possibilities of the codec Real. Not necessarily on quality, but on other points: centered on the speed of compression, of the subtitles, of the profiles special Real and well of others.

As regards the x264. it was in relation to optimizations constant, with a view to encoding of quality to reduced bitrate and or even to very high bitrates.

Jut a question (indiscreet):
How do you conceive this project you a fervid admirer of Real? :)

[bond]

It would rock what? x264 and ateme are pretty strong and implemented in user methodology. It would merely be "just another AVC codec" in your 30 codec list...lol, you have an opinion about real. why do you seem to think that real cant compete with ateme or x264? ;)
i think real has the potential to write a top of the notch avc codec

[stephanV]

lol, you have an opinion about real. why do you seem to think that real cant compete with ateme or x264? ;)
He wasn't arguing that, but that it would be just more of the same. So what if it's competing ateme or x264? It's only interesting if it will do significantly better/faster.

[Sirber]

Jut a question (indiscreet):
How do you conceive this project you a fervid admirer of Real? :)I have no public opinion on that. ;)

[guada 2]

Without being malicious, the RV10 would it be really late or perhaps in phase to reverse the steam of the codec x264, or even one day Ateme?

I have always appreciate this codec since its exit, but why is it back?
- a lack of interest by the users;
- a possible lack of optimization;
- or little developer fascinated by this codec?

[Sirber]

1) Maybe
2) No, RV10 at max is faster than x264
3) Only RN devellop RV ;)

[bond]

He wasn't arguing that, but that it would be just more of the same. So what if it's competing ateme or x264? It's only interesting if it will do significantly better/faster.you are talking like a non avc compliant realvideo11 being worse than x264 and ateme would be more interesting than a compliant one. i think the opposite is true, especially as it will be closedsource and we will hardly know whats going on technically internally

in fact being avc compliant will give the user more, cause than he can be sure his/her realvideo11 files will also be supported widely in the future, while realvideo10 will die out and will not have the broad longterm support an avc compliant rv11 would have
also you are forgetting that avc support in realplayer would be very good for the user as its still one of the big three players
also you are forgetting that hdtv and hddvd will push avc forward a lot too and real will surely not want to miss that

well it will be reals decision on whether they want to be avc compliant, for the user it will be better imho

[guada 2]

OOOK!!!!!
"gracias EL AMIGO" or thank you very much my friend. ;)

Hey say me Sirber, is it for when the RACE? :D

[Sirber]

RealAnime Pocket? Some days after LE is finished :)

RealAnime Pocket encode for PocketPC and not on PocketPC ;)

[guada 2]

Very spiritual... ;)

I find quite interesting suddenly to speak about RV11.
What do you hope to find in this new mounting in forecast?
(You understand well that I am also interested as you.... :) )

[stephanV]

you are talking like a non avc compliant realvideo11 being worse than x264 and ateme would be more interesting than a compliant one.
Eeeeeeerrrrrrr... heh? That's not what I said. I just don't think we need yet another h264 codec that doesn't do anything the others don't already do. It would be just another one on a long list. Well... yay.


in fact being avc compliant will give the user more, cause than he can be sure his/her realvideo11 files will also be supported widely in the future, while realvideo10 will die out and will not have the broad longterm support an avc compliant rv11 would have
Are there pre-RV9/10 real files that are unplayable right now? If not, this issue is merely an academic one. I don't think anyone using Real right now is worried about future support or wide usability (if they would worry, they would have made the wrong choice).

also you are forgetting that avc support in realplayer would be very good for the user as its still one of the big three players
I'm not forgetting anything, maybe you have. They can support h264 fine without making an encoder for it. I don't see Real making any WMV encoders either.

also you are forgetting that hdtv and hddvd will push avc forward a lot too and real will surely not want to miss that
Again I did not forget that. What do Real's business strategies have to do with whether it is interesting for me if Real makes another h264 codec or not? How is that important for any user? The world will go on with Real, and it will go on without it. (and so will h264)

Just to be clear: I'm not against Real making an h264 codec, but I won't jump a hole in the sky if they do either (unless its a lot better then what there is now)

But who knows, they might as well be implementing VC-1 instead. :)

[Sirber]

But who knows, they might as well be implementing VC-1 instead. :)Who knows... :D

[bond]

whatever...
we will see what real does

[guada 2]

Real/VC-1 ??????

To carry out such an operation would start again all the process of compression. Really very interesting...

As one says:
" swallow a fruit, it is very easy but to digest it is much less obvious ".

RV10 died but RV11 is maybe liveliness to achieve the good operation, that of the resurrection.. "Who knows.." says Sirber.

[Sirber]

VC-1 is like MPEG4 with inloop. Going VC-1 for RV11 would be a step back.

[stephanV]

VC-1 is like MPEG4 with inloop.
Naw, thats a major oversimplification.

[bond]

VC-1 is like MPEG4 with inloop. Going VC-1 for RV11 would be a step back.lol, actually skal told me nearly the same today :D
he meant vc-1 is asp + multiref

[IvS]

Right...so instead of trying to define in one sentence how both are different, here's a diagram (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=729026&postcount=95) that explains it a little better.
Personally Sirber, I think you should be excited, since you encode animation a lot. (refer to sysKin's quotes here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=719836&postcount=86)) According to what was said on IRC, VC-1 should be quite nice especially for animation material.

[Sirber]

h264 has 8x4 and etc block size.

[iwod]

May be they are working on hardware player for RV............now that would be great...............

[guada 2]

Iwod,

I don't know but it won't be so simple...maybe that I am mistaken....

[Sirber]

RealNetwork business is not only oriented to video... maybe their next plan will be on something else, something new, something with microsoft against google :D

edit:

All IMO :)

[guada 2]

A form of non-existent technology.
Which would be well this technical innovation, unless you do not wish to move the core of the topic.
Who know, Sirber wants to induce us in error. :D

[Sirber]

Sirber wants to induce us in error. Evil Sirber :devil:
Look at the compagny timeline on: http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/realnetworks

:)

[bond]

if you sniff through this dir (https://helixcommunity.org/viewcvs/cgi/viewcvs.cgi/datatype/mp4/video/renderer/#dirlist) you will see there is avc-specific stuff committed to the helix cvs:

Added support for pixel aspect ratio support in MPEG4-Video/H.264 renderer.
Added support for local playback of H.264 (H-HX-AVC1 mime type).
Added support for X-HX-AVC1 payload (H.264 local playback) and interface to avc1 decoder.
Added H.264 depacketizer

dunno if this refers to the libavcodec avc decoder or to some not yet released internal real avc decoder

[karl_lillevold]

Helix (player) strives to be the most universal playback engine. It needs to support every possible codec :)

[guada 2]

It is very encouraging for the continuation. ;)

[Sharktooth]

HINT: an integrated full featured AVC Player/Encoder with support for streaming and all the bells and whistles would be interesting... it will directly compete with $h!ttime(TM), Nero and Windows Media giving superior quality...

[IgorC]

RV with support H.264 and HE-AAC2 is great idea. Real will be best online player.

Some players have good videocodec but not suport HE-AAC

0. Real suporting H.264 and HE-AAC2
1. Winamp VP6 + HE-AAC2
2. QuickTime 7 H.264 + LC-AAC
3. Real10 RV10 + HE-AAC1
4. Flash 8 VP6 + MP3 :scared:
5. WMplayer 9.1 (absolete video/audio codecs)

[Sirber]

Quicktime has the market for online videos (traillers), while WMV for the rest (ex: big boys). Not sure market wise it's a good move. Also, why use RealPlayer for offline content (except RMVB)?

[dexx]

RMVB suprised me by how good it is. A 40 minute hdtv episode encoded down to 100mb. The quality was amazingly good.

[Sirber]

Well, you can do the same or even smaller size with x264 and HE-AAC.

[Sharktooth]

there are a lot of websites streaming "real" content usually along with WMV or quicktime.
if real could produce a standard compliant product (those things i said in my previous reply) with superior quality (AVC HP and AAC+ v2) would certainly be the best solution for streaming content.
Also it will ensure compatibility with other solutions and that will be a major advantage for the customers.
Also compatibility with old real codec would ensure a painless transition.

[LeMoi]

Did someone try latest RealProducer 11 or helix producer commandlinde ?

[guada2]

"Did someone try latest RealProducer 11"

I haven't try it yet.
However, I would be tempt to try soon "RN Helix mobile Professionnal 11"; to test its capacities of encoding.
The one seems like to me. :)

[guada2]

Real is not DEAD.

Helix Mobile Producer Professional powered by Envivio 11 is a very great program.
I didn't test everything because the guide is long and complete, but ite is perfect.

Good work Real. :)

[Sirber]

Real is not dead, RV10 is ;)

[Anima123]

I'm very curious what Real can bring to us next.

[Sirber]

In any case, RV10 will be back again in RealAnime 4.

[iwod]

Yes.. Real is not dead............ but any other serious video codec company will always keep us up to date via blog or other media. Divx, Nero etc........

May be they are now consentrate on their music store and not video codec.

May be 2 years later when they finally realize RV10 is no good to them they will open it up. But then may be too late............

LOL............. history like to repeat itself doesn't it?

[karl_lillevold]

Hmm, there already is a "RealVideo" blog: http://realvideo.blogspot.com/
and surprise, surprise, there is one for "RV10" as well: http://rv10.blogspot.com/

So, I had to create: http://reallabs.blogspot.com/ :)

[bond]

great, now people only need to write something :D

[guada 2]

Hello Karl, :)

News of Real.no.....no
Who know? Perhaps that it sleeping. :D

[karl_lillevold]

http://www.real.no/

not related to realnetworks. it's a norwegian real estate company...

[guada 2]

:) Sorry Karl,
But I think that you understood me.

Any news on the codec "RV11".

[bond]

i guess real will tell us soon enough ;)

[Dark-Cracker]

@ guada
perhaps you are not aware that some company request privacy for there development and don't allow their employees to leak information before an official announcement ?

++

[guada 2]

The RealVideo corner missed a little attention.
Therefore, I thought that it was significant to give a progress report on the situation of the codec and its development.(with a little humour of guada 2)


@Dark-Cracker
Nevertheless, you are perfectly right .
Like one often says, patience is art to wait.
I hope of all my heart that this waiting will be at the height of waiting of all those which believes in this codec.

[Sirber]

@guada 2

I don't understand the underlined part :confused:

[BigDid]

@guada 2

I don't understand the underlined part :confused:
Hi Sirber, Hi Guada, Hi everybody,

Maybe it's a "contrepèterie" (should be spoonerism in english) between art/heart wait/height.
If not, Guada please enlighten us :p

Did

[dragongodz]

don't understand the underlined part
i read it as meaning -
Like people often say, patience is the art to waiting.
I hope with all my heart that this waiting will be worth the wait for all those who believe in this codec.

i think i remember seeing in a post before that guada 2 uses a web translation because he only speaks french being from Lyon. people should realise these translations are never great. :)

perhaps you are not aware that some company request privacy for there development and don't allow their employees to leak information before an official announcement ?
and when an employee of that company(senior codec engineer no less) is not only a member but also a mod of a section dedicated to just their product it is also not unreasonable for people to ask if there is any information said person can give or release. Karl has every right to say he can not say anything if he likes of course but to have this section with him modding it and then expect people to not even ask if there is any news is ridiculous.

[Sirber]

Karl never said anything before the release of the product. I think it will be the case for the next product.

Za next product shall kick ass :D

[guada 2]

Merry chrismas :) ,

After xvid avc ("soon") , perhaps Real avc ???????
It would be interesting to see Real avc / mpeg-4 als audio multichannel or dst.......

an opinion...

[CruNcher]

guada Real AVC hehe did you ever looked really closely @ RV10 and did you really never realized that it uses H.264 technology ;)

[Sagittaire]

guada Real AVC hehe did you ever looked really closely @ RV10 and did you really never realized that it uses H.264 technology ;)

yes perhaps that Hardware able to decode H264 will able to decode RV10 like actual chip for MPEG4 ASP and DivX3 ...

[guada 2]

@cruncher & Sagittaire

It is true!!!!.
I think that I missed something.
Can you be more explicit please.

[bond]

will this discussion never end...

[Sirber]

RV10 is as much like h264 like VP7 is ;)

THEY ALL COMPRESS VIDEO!!!! ;)

[guada 2]

@Bond
Very spiritual ...

@sirber
It is for when the REAL OPTIMIZATION: summer , this winter 2006 ?

[Sirber]

which optimization? 3DNOW? I asked many times, and many times I got a NO :(

[guada 2]

@sirber
It is very strange....("what a pity").

I don't really think of it.
I think that if RV10 or " RVxxx " plays the Race, it will be necessary to pay to acquire it

[Sirber]

@sirber
It is for when the REAL OPTIMIZATION: summer , this winter 2006 ?What are you referencing to?

[Sagittaire]

It is not likely there will be any updates to RV10. It is stable and there are no open bugs. We are working hard on another project, and have no spare resources to continue improving RV10.

The answer is however clear ... more efficient video codec is not priority for RealNetworks.

[Sirber]

You read it wrong, "another project" means "not RV10", it doesn't mean not in video codecs anymore.

[karl_lillevold]

fortunately, most people can count beyond 10.

[guada 2]

@karl_lillevold

It is very important for the continuation.
I admire.....:)

[DeathTheSheep]

fortunately, most people can count beyond 10.
Unfortunately, most people I know in the computer buisness can't count past 10 (COUGHinbinaryCOUGH). Therefore, no, you may be incorrect in your assumption ;)

[guada 2]

" fortunately, most people can count beyond 10".

Who says better? :D

[BigDid]

" fortunately, most people can count beyond 10".

Who says better? :D
Not me :o
I will try less: I thought that computer guys ruled the world only with 2 bits: 0 & 1
Who says less?

Did

PS: things are changing but not this thread, keep it as is :D
PS2: translation problem bits replaces by bytes again replaced by bits, my bad ;)
PS3: Going to hibernate until end of february except, maybe, for exceptions :)
Bye

[Sirber]

2 bits, not 2 bytes. 1 byte is 8 bit ;)