DGDecode 1.1.0+ by NaN

[Carpo]

ok this may be off topic for here a bit - but i thought seeing as dvd-rb does use DGDecode 1.1.0 any way its worth a go

has anyone used this version? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101353

if so does it work ok with dvdrb?

[neuron2]

In the linked thread NaN implies that it is usable with RB, because he says that it must be named as dgdecode.dll to be usable with RB.

[Carpo]

thats why i posted about it in here - jst wondered if anyone has used it and what they thought

[FredThompson]

Hmmm...very interesting, especially if it works better with streaming MPEG2 sources.

[Carpo]

there is a definite speed increase using this dll to the original - norm cce would encode at 2.7x - 2.8x but now its sitting at 3.50+ :)

havent tried it with other encoders yet - but showing some signs of being very useful

[NaN]

Use it with dvd-rebuilder! That's what it is thought for.

@Carpo: glad you like it :-)

Cheers, NaN

PS: don't forget: the current build requires an Athlon64 or Pentium4 (or other SSE2 capable cpu).

[Carpo]

i am using it with dvd-rb :) on my little p4 it seems to have sped things up :D

[spyhawk]

Cool! I'd like to give this a try. But where is the dll file? I can only get the zipped source.

How's the speed improvement with HC?

[Video Dude]

Extract the dll from the zip file. The zip file contains the dll, help files, and source code.

[spyhawk]

From the link in this first post by Carpo, the first attachment is source file, the second attachment, I think have the dll, which is still pending approval but was told that it was approved already. :confused: Is this also hosted somewhere that I can get? Thanks.

[HKT3020_1]

If this has Jdobbs' approval then I'll go for it, I really don't want to upgrade unless I'm absolutely sure it'll work. ;)

[Video Dude]

From the link in this first post by Carpo, the first attachment is source file, the second attachment, I think have the dll, which is still pending approval but was told that it was approved already. :confused: Is this also hosted somewhere that I can get? Thanks.
My mistake. I thought the dll was in the first attachment.

I guess we have to wait for approval.

[writersblock29]

@Carpo

Where'd you get the .dll? Is someone hosting it?

[Pasqui]

The dll was first posted in the DVD2AVI/DGIndex forum. See here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=724084#post724084).

[Carpo]

If this has Jdobbs' approval then I'll go for it, I really don't want to upgrade unless I'm absolutely sure it'll work. ;)

it works i did an encode overnight using it

@Carpo Where'd you get the .dll? Is someone hosting it?

it was on that link i posted but seeing as the author changed the zip to inclued a txt file as he was asked to do so i think it needs approval again


edit: which it now has :)

[neuron2]

New attachment is now approved.

[neuron2]

Hmmm...very interesting, especially if it works better with streaming MPEG2 sources. Fred, it's just a performance improvement, i.e., speed. What do you mean by "streaming MPEG2 sources" and what problems are you encountering with them that motivate this question?

[NaN]

I'm strongly against seeing my build as rivalry to Don's work. I see it more as addition. His excellent work brings us new exciting features, whereas my build is only about performance.

With my build I just want to speed up regular automated encodings - for more advanced work I strongly recommend using neuron2's latest and greatest version.

Cheers, NaN

[Carpo]

well we can use dons latest build if we use other apps instead of dvd-rb - reason we need to use urs and/or dons older version is becuase dvd-rb only supports 1.1.0 atm - jdobbs is looking into updating support in later versions ;)

[FredThompson]

Fred, it's just a performance improvement, i.e., speed. What do you mean by "streaming MPEG2 sources" and what problems are you encountering with them that motivate this question?
The "home" thread says there is a speed boost and:

broken "info" and "upConv" parameters are now fixed
backported the better slice decoding from DGDecode 1.4.3 (better resilience to video errors)
added exception handling (was introduced in DGDecode 1.3.0)

This reads to me like it is one of your recent builds with an older d2v format.

I'm sitting on a PAL commercial source which 1.1.0 will not support and my comment about streaming source is related to duplicated fields and other "niceties" of streaming source. Build 1.4.5 works with the PAL, btw, http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101427.

I've also been playing with some HD stuff and toying with the idea of making an oversized IFO set then running it through DVD-RB Pro as a convenient way of making a "proper" DVD. Some of those are really screwed up. I've noticed quite a few ts sets play just fine but DGIndex will report it can't find a PID. Uh...I'm getting way off topic, here, sorry.

[neuron2]

I've noticed quite a few ts sets play just fine but DGIndex will report it can't find a PID. Can you please follow up on this in the DGIndex forum or PM me? I'd like to know if you mean that the PAT/PMT detection failed, the Raw detection failed, both of those, or something else. I've recently come across some transport streams that send all PMTs on the same PID, and PAT/PMT detection fails in that case. I am currently recoding to fix that case.

[luphy]

So anyone else notice any improvements in speed using this version of DGDecode.dll?

Sounds like some folks have gotten more than the advertised 10% speed increase?

[Fiebre]

Wow mine jumped from 3.8 to 4.36 with this. Thanks! :goodpost:

[Carpo]

ye im getting better speeds

[writersblock29]

@luphy

I've noticed a speed gain from 2.5X-2.8X to 3.1X-3.5X on an Athlon 64 3200+. I haven't played back the resulting files yet, however, to tell if there are any errors. All seemed to go smoothly, though! :D

[neuron2]

I've noticed a speed gain from 2.5X-2.8X to 3.1X-3.5X on an Athlon 64 3200+. I haven't played back the resulting files yet, however, to tell if there are any errors. All seemed to go smoothly, though! Those improvements seem grossly inconsistent with the changes that were made. Would you like to share your testing methodology with us?

[luphy]

I think he meant that his speeds went from (2.5-2.8) previously to (3.1 to 3.5) - (~ 25% increase). I don't think he meant that it is now 2.5 times to 2.8 times faster.

Fiebre posted gains from 3.8 to 4.36 (~15%), and Carpo also had gains from 2.8 to 3.5 (~25%)

My speed increase was a very modest 6% on an older Pentium 4M (has SSE, SSE-2 and MMX).

[neuron2]

OK, yes. Then I'm glad I reconsidered my first answer. :)

[Not to dwell on it, though, but in my neck of the woods, 'x' means 'times'. That's why we have things like 640x480 resolution, 2x2 = 4, etc.]

The last thing we need is a rumor to start that NaNDecode is up to almost 4 times faster than DGDecode.

[NaN]

Up to 4 times faster! :eek:

Interesting that nobody seems to believe in the release post... on my machine I get 10% more speed and that's it.

But thanks a lot guys! It was nice to see those ground shaking numbers ;-))

Cheers, NaN

[blueboyec]

How do you check to see if you have a SSE2 cpus

[Rippraff]

There are a lot of freeware tools on the web, I recommend CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php).

Cu Rippraff

[neuron2]

Try the DGIndex menu item Help/Detected SIMD.

[jdobbs]

It would be nice if it could recognize an SSE2 supported processor and either switch support on or off depending upon if it is there,

[neuron2]

It would be nice if it could recognize an SSE2 supported processor and either switch support on or off depending upon if it is there, You're referring to NaNDecode, just to clarify.

[spyhawk]

I tried this NanDecode with HC 0.16T2 and it is 15 min slower. I'll try CCE next time.

[writersblock29]

@neuron2

(In reference to 2.5X-2.8X, ect.)

Sorry 'bout that. Luphy was correct in his assumption that I was referring to encoding speeds (kind of like calling a 16-speed DVD a 16X disk in reference to burning speed), as opposed to *times a given amount*. So mathematically I'm witnessing about a 25% increase in performance. I appologize for the confusion. ;)

[NaN]

If in doubt, use the SSE version.

It selects the SSE2 code during runtime if a SSE2 compliant cpu is found. The reason for 2 different versions has to do with different scheduling and threading. That's nothing I can do during runtime.

Cheers, NaN

[blueboyec]

thanks


There are a lot of freeware tools on the web, I recommend CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php).

Cu Rippraff

[FredThompson]

Do your builds support color matrix selection?
(Reply from Wilbert to PM asking about folding ColorMatrix filter into DGDecode)It's not only possible, but it is already implemented. You have two options:

1) use hints=true. The matrix can change in a clip and hints=true can handle that.

2) specify d2v file. d2v = ... It will read out the d2v for the coefficients.

(1) is slower than (2).

[NaN]

As I already wrote in the pm, the info parameter works in my build a bit different, so now at the moment, the answer is no.

I will definitely look into it when I've more time.

Cheers, NaN

Edit: deleted a sentence where I didn't know what I was talking about.

[jptheripper]

i went from 3.8 to 4.2, a 10% increase
hmm on a different avs i just hit 5.2!!! never seen that before


my cpuz reports
"MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, EM64T" .. i should be using the SSE2 version right?

[Carpo]

yes sse2 should work on that

[jptheripper]

yes it worked great. question is, whats sse3 and is there a version for that that is even faster?

[Oldeman]

Using NaN's decode version with DRB 1.01 and HC.16RC2 on a 3.0E P4, I got a encode time reduction from 179 to 171 minutes or just about 4.5% faster. ;)

[idbirch2]

yes it worked great. question is, whats sse3 and is there a version for that that is even faster?

SSE3 is enabled on the Prescott flavour or the P4 processor. These have 1MB level 2 cache as opposed to the 512k of the Northwood.

I got a Prescott - would an SSE3 version make it any quicker NaN?

[hank315]

The main advantage of SSE3 is that it can load (16 bytes) unaligned memory almost as fast as aligned memory.
IMHO encoders will have more benefit of SSE3 than decoders.

[luphy]

I need to get myself a desktop. Seeing all these big numbers for the CCE speed is making me jealous. My P-4M 2-Ghz gives me around 1.6 :-P.

I rarely used CCE before, but I'm starting to backup more of my episodic discs (like Scrubs that is around 65% reduction without extras).

[NaN]

Sure the lddqu instruction from the SSE3 set could be used somewhere (e.g. in replacing some MMX code with SSE, the movq from the MMX set doesn't need to be aligned), however, I don't have a Prescott, so that wouldn't be the very first thing I do in the next time.

Doing just a SSE3 build for better scheduling only (threading being the same as on Northwood) wouldn't give reasonable benefit, IMHO.

Cheers, NaN

[NaN]

Oh and please don't forget what I already wrote on the other thread.

Performance tests with different encoders (other than CCE) to test my statement are worthless, since no other encoder is that highly optimized as CCE and, thus, needs more cpu-time itself - so the decoder plays a less than tiny role. (If the encoder needs 90% of the whole cpu-time, then the decoder has 10% impact, cutting that in half would give a maximum of 5% speedup. However on my P4 I cut it by one third, so a max of 3% possible).

@everyone who gets lower performance than neuron2's build gives: please be so nice and post your some cpu data (brand, family, frequency, extensions), so I can add a note to the release post.

Thanks! NaN

[SamuriHL]

I need to get myself a desktop. Seeing all these big numbers for the CCE speed is making me jealous. My P-4M 2-Ghz gives me around 1.6 :-P.

I rarely used CCE before, but I'm starting to backup more of my episodic discs (like Scrubs that is around 65% reduction without extras).

Hmmm, that's odd. My 1.74 P4M gets higher than that on a consistant basis. What speed is the hard drive on that thing and how much mem do you have? I have a gig of ddr2 and a 5400 80 gig drive on mine. You should be seeing a bit faster than that I'd think. This new dll definitely improved things for me, as well. Probably close to 20% increase.

[Carpo]

p4m - thats prob a laptop - laptop i have says its a 1.8 but its speed reported by windows and linux have both said 1.2 - so thats prob why the speed off cce on there isnt great

[SamuriHL]

Mine's a Dell Inspiron 9300, so, yes, a laptop. It's amazingly fast for a laptop. I truly love this thing. I generally do all my encoding on my two video machines...an athlon xp 2500+ and an athlon xp 2100+ both with a gig of memory...but when I do use the laptop I find it's quite fast. I just did an encode of Batman Begins in a little over 2 hours...speed was between 2.5 and 4 on most of the files. I really can't complain at all. I do tend to use my external hard drive through firewire, as well, and that helps quite a bit. I don't want to beat on the internal hard drive too much for video editing/reencoding.

[FredThompson]

On the "trouble" PAL DVD I've been testing, the latest SEE build will work with the first segment of two which build 1.1.0 hates. The second segment is a failure. DGDecode won't load it. Darn. Getting there, something's not quite right, though. DGDecoe 1.4.5 loads both segments flawlessly.

[blueboyec]

So to use DGDecode 1.1.0+ by NaN have to do the following:
Options: ---> AVS Options:---> Advance Options:---> Set Decoder idct: 32 bit SSE2/MMX

Is this correct?

Thanks for the help in advance.

[Carpo]

no just put the dll is the same dir as dvdrb.exe

[luphy]

Hmmm, that's odd. My 1.74 P4M gets higher than that on a consistant basis. What speed is the hard drive on that thing and how much mem do you have? I have a gig of ddr2 and a 5400 80 gig drive on mine. You should be seeing a bit faster than that I'd think. This new dll definitely improved things for me, as well. Probably close to 20% increase.

The Dell 9300 series laptops have a newer generation CPU compared to my 8500 Dell laptop - and the FSB speed is faster too. The newer 9300 have the Pentium M, which is probably 2 generations newer than my P4-M. A 1.7Ghz Pentium M is probably equivalent to a 2.8 or higher P4-M. And the 9300 has a bigger cache and a 533Mhz FSB versus 400Mhz for the P4-M.

[SamuriHL]

Well that would certainly explain it then. :) I wasn't aware of the differences. Technically, I'm not a huge intel fan, but, I wanted a laptop and the centrino chipset certainly gave the best performance and battery life when I bought it. That's probably still the case. I will say that I have absolutely enjoyed the 9300 since the day I got it. No complaints at all.

[Carpo]

running the encode i am now i can deff say there is an improvement in speed - this could be due to nans dll or new avisynth im using - you never know

but on a film here with 54.4% compression using UnDot().Deen() its sitting at about 2 on encoding speed where with other dll it says at about 1.4-1.5 so i would say there is deff improvement and a real case for dvdrb v1.10 to support neuron2 version (stable one when dvdrb 1.10 is done) and/or nans updated one if he updates it

although this is just my thought, jdobbs is the man who will decide (i have already asked for support int he wish list thread :) )

all in all its a great piece of kit either way and well worth the money i donated :D

EDIT: doing a film with idct 3 undot and deen and getting 1.8 (now that may not seem much) but with other dll it was 1.3 - so i would say that nans improvements to neuron2 version have had som beifits for me :)

[blueboyec]

Carpo/NAN or anyone else,

So I do not have do anything else other than put the dll in the same dir as dvdrb.exe?

Just woundering what most people set Decoder idct to, I currently have it set to 32 Bit Simple MMX(XVID)? What does the default set it to?

Thanks



no just put the dll is the same dir as dvdrb.exe

[Carpo]

yip just put nans dll in same dir as dvdrb.exe

think dvdrb defaults to idct 7 - i have mine set to 3 - would use 4 but think there is issues with ieee one

[writersblock29]

@blueboyec

All you have to do is drag and drop Nan's dll into whatever folder your usual DGDecode dll is located, and answer "yes" to the warning window that will appear (the window says something about 'are you sure you want to replace *DGDecode* with *New File*). Or -- if you'd like some insurance without finding your original dll on the internet again, just move the original dll to another folder... replace it with Nan's... and you're off. If you run into any problems with Nan's driver, then you can always replace it with your original. Of course, if you do run into trouble with Nan's driver (and I'm sure he'd agree with this), post it here so that he can check it out.

If you used the DVDRB installer, then I beleive it automatically puts the DGDecode dll into the same folder as the Rebuilder EXE. To be sure where the original DGDecode file is, open Rebuilder, run Setup, and follow the path listed.

[blueboyec]

Carpo and writersblock29,

Thanks for your response.

I was just asking the previous questions to find out if there are any extra benefits to setting Decoder idct: to 32 bit SSE2/MMX since Nans dll is using SSE2 for improving speed. I have had no problems after installing the dll, just trying to find out if we could speed up RB in other ways.

[Carpo]

l, just trying to find out if we could speed up RB in other ways.

get a fast pc ;D

normaly encodes on my pc arent that bad - if you add filters and change the idct then this will slow down your encodes - its best to leave the settings as default - unless you really know what your doing ;)

[NaN]

@ blueboyec: just stick with xvid simple (MMX), it's a very nice one (fairly high precision with high speed). The SSE & SSE2 builds are just a bit better matched to the particular cpu architecture.

Cheers, NaN

[blueboyec]

NaN,

Thanks. My CPU info indicated MMX, SSE and SSE2. Based on this info do you still recommend xvid simple (MMX)?

Thanks again.

BB

[masscamp24]

Is itm ok for me to try this decoder

[Jeffster]

Thanks. My CPU info indicated MMX, SSE and SSE2. Based on this info do you still recommend xvid simple (MMX)?
I think you're confusing two separate issues...

If you want to try this alternative decoder, the .dll you choose (SSE1 or SSE2) depends on your CPU... the iDCT algorithm is a function of the .dll and you can choose any one that is supported by your CPU.

If you want more information on choosing an iDCT algorithm there are several threads (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=94925) on this forum about them and the pro's and con's of each, or read the DGDecode manual... but as NaN said, Simple iDCT (XviD) is a good choice.

[Rippraff]

Is itm ok for me to try this decoder
Yes !

[masscamp24]

Thanks for your quick response RIPPRAFF. However do I replace the existing decoder in the DVD-RB folder with this one? Does it affect the quality in anyway? Please bear with me, I'm new and a rookie to all of this. However DVD-RB PRO is a FANTASTIC!!!!!! program.

[blueboyec]

Jeffster and NaN,

Thanks for the info. I'll sick with Simple iDCT (XviD).


BBec

[jdobbs]

However DVD-RB PRO is a FANTASTIC!!!!!! program. Good observation. ;)

[rkr1958]

I'm using NaN's decoder which is dated 10/14/1004 and is located in
C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll

The one I'm using for AviSynth 2.5 is dated 1/21/2005 and is located in
C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\DGDecode.dll


I'm running a P4 Northword 2.6-GHz CPU, which does have SSE2. I did notice a speed up in CCE-basic and a decrease in run times. Thanks NaN ...

I have a question though, do I have to worry about the above two version of DGDecode.dll conflicting with each other when I run either DVD-RB Pro or an AviSynth script?

Also, if I updated AviSynth to it's latest version will that work with DVD-RB? If not, what's the highest version of AviSynth that does?

Thanks.

[jdobbs]

The two versions of dgdecode shouldn't conflict. You just have to specifically include the "load" statement in any AVS that is using the one in the "DVD-RB PRO" directory (as DVD-RB does).

[jdobbs]

AVISYNTH v2.5.5 is the latest that has been completely tested and certified (if there is such a thing) with DVD-RB. There were some problems with v2.5.6 during development -- but I don't know if they still exist.

[Carpo]

there is this

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=729821#post729821

although i dont know what plugins are affected

[jdobbs]

???? v2.5.7 isn't even listed on the sourceforge site:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=57023

[Added] Never mind... it appears they are currently working on it... and it isn't even in Alpha release yet.

[feedback]

there is this

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=729821#post729821

although i dont know what plugins are affected
@Carpo
Thanks for the heads up with the link you posted!
I have been using AviSynth 2.56, build: Jan 31, 2005 [21:37:08]
for a couple of months with no apparent problems, but I see that the potential for problems, using 2.56, does exist with plugins.

Regards,:)

[Carpo]

im guessing they have sorted it as the src and exe is back on the download page at sourceforge

@feedback

i been using for few weeks with no issues - just plugins are affected and i dont use em (much) :p