RealAnime 4 - General Questions and Troubleshooting Thread

[Sirber]

Name: RealAnime 4
Version: 4.2.0
Purpose: Batch Anime Re-encoding, not DVD ripping.
Language: English
Programmed in: Delphi 7 VCL
License: OpenSource, licensed under GNU GPL

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/images/donate.png (https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=sirber@detritus.qc.ca&no_shipping=1&item_name=RealAnime)

Features:
* Video: x264, XviD, RV10
* Audio: AAC PS/HE/LC, MP3, Vorbis
* Input: AVI, D2V, OGM, MKV, MP4, WAV, AAC, AC3, MP3, MPEG, AVS
* Output: MKV, MP4, RMVB
* Profiles: Normal (PC), iPod, Pocket PC, PSP

Minimum system requirements:
* Windows 2000/XP
* FFDshow, AVISynth 2.5+, Helix YUV Codecs
* Pentium 3 or higher CPU (P4 recommended for Extreme Quality)
* 256MB of RAM
... or else you will cry in a dark corner for few days.

Installation:
1) Download and Install!
2) Run!
3) Drag files in! :D

Playback:
1) You need the latest ffdshow (min. 2005-10-25)
2) You need to set "ffdshow audio" to decode AAC using "libfaad2".

Download:
Detritus Software (http://www.detritus.qc.ca)

Comments are welcome! :D

[vidhead]

why the high minimum hardware requirements? amd64? 512MB RAM?

mp4 output?

is there a preview?

if not, how about allowing tests encodes where user to specify time-span, eg 3 min from a user specified frame number? (intention is to allow quick testing of different settings where user sees as "poor" encodes. instead of using dgindex to chop various d2vs, or use avs scripts which is rather time consuming)

allow loading of avs from other sources, eg agk, gk, manual scripts, would be nice?

[Marsu42]

"RealAnime requires a Pentium 4 or eqivalent" ??? Ugh, so much for beta testing with my Athlon XP :-( ... and like vidhead before me, I am wondering why each of the tools used runs just fine with my current setup by itsself but the combination should not?

Apart from that, it would be nice to be able customize the installation and point to already installed (and probably newer) versions of avisynth, besweet and mkvmerge like it is possible in GK.

... and using the Winamp AAC encoder w/ PS like in BeLight would be nice, too, but you probably already thought of that yourself.

[Kurtnoise]

Remove BeLight from your tool please...

[Sirber]

why the high minimum hardware requirements? amd64? 512MB RAM?On my 3000+ RealAnime LE goes at a very high speed of 8FPS. On a 1800+, it would encode at ~3 FPS. Time to upgrade :)
mp4 output?This is my first working build. MP4 will come later.
is there a preview?

if not, how about allowing tests encodes where user to specify time-span, eg 3 min from a user specified frame number? (intention is to allow quick testing of different settings where user sees as "poor" encodes. instead of using dgindex to chop various d2vs, or use avs scripts which is rather time consuming) No. But it could be added very easily.
allow loading of avs from other sources, eg agk, gk, manual scripts, would be nice?Can't do with track management (same with RealAnime 3.x). What you can do is to paste your manual AVS in the filtering tab. RealAnime do the AVISource (etc) and loadplugins.
Apart from that, it would be nice to be able customize the installation and point to already installed (and probably newer) versions of avisynth, besweet and mkvmerge like it is possible in GK.All included stuff (ffdshow, avisynth, helix codecs) will use the folders where it was installed before, or the default, automaticly. For x264, BeSweet and MKVToolNix, they are hard bundeled and using the latest release at release time.
... and using the Winamp AAC encoder w/ PS like in BeLight would be nice, too, but you probably already thought of that yourself.I thought about it, but it seemed pointless to me. IIRC, Nero do the same things as Winamp.

[Sirber]

Remove BeLight from your tool please...Why? It's GPL and free to use / distribute. Also, it's only used in the Tools tab, in case the user have a specific audio to encode.

[Inventive Software]

Dumb question: Why 2000/XP only? I run 98SE, and the majority of tools and apps coming out require XP. Unfortunately, I don't have the cash or the time to use, let alone play with XP.

Agreed about Ahead AAC. People like it more because it's easier to work with and it comes with a recognised product that has many options. Although the new Winamp AAC encoder has HE, the previous one was limited to LC.

[Sirber]

I don't check the OS, so you can try it on 98SE. But, I'm affraid, if you run 98SE you might not have the HW requirements to run LE. 98 is kinda old and devs can't afford to support their soft on all platforms.

Like, if you report a bug what is 98 specific, how can I debug it when I'm on XP? :(

[edit]

Just read your computer specs. You should forget about x264... unless you want to spend weeks on 1 single encode :(
Also, RealAnime LE will tell you you need a P4 and at least 512MB of RAM.

Even RealAnime 3.2 might not let you run it...

[Inventive Software]

Point taken. I'll try it, and see what happens. The worst is that I have to restore my partition! :D

[Sirber]

You might be decieved... since RealAnime will not let you encode... :(

[Kurtnoise]

Why?
It's not because it's under GPL that you can do everything you want IMO. :sly: I consider it's the least you could do : to ask before to developper the permission to include the tool in your GUI. Did you ask something to DPSGuru concerning BeSweet ? Did you read its disclaimer ?

And now the *big* question : why do you include some GUIs whereas your tool is already a Graphical User Interface ?

[Sirber]

It's not because it's under GPL that you can do everything you want IMO. :sly: I consider it's the least you could do : to ask before to developper the permission to include the tool in your GUI.License-wise I'm legal, but that's not the question.

Did you ask something to DPSGuru concerning BeSweet ? Did you read its disclaimer ?I tryed to contact him but his PM is full and he doesn't have an email address. IIRC I also posted here to ask but I didn't get an answer.

And now the *big* question : why do you include some GUIs whereas your tool is already a Graphical User Interface ?They are external tools not used directly by RealAnime.

Now my big question, may I please use your BeSweet GUI in my software as an external tool?

[Eretria-chan]

All these tools included in your software makes it so bloatly HUGE. You should provide additional downloads for tools. Many people who download stuff here already have many of those tools, don't you think? If so, then why re-download them again? It makes the file size so huge!

Another thing that would be very nice is zones. They can be incredibly useful for encoding. Or, if I just could get my hands on what settings realanime uses... in the vfw... I don't use CLI. I would also like to use the WinAmp encoder since it is BETTER than nero and can go lower without much quality loss. I went down to the very bottom, 16, without any audiable quality loss to my ears.

Will RealAnime not run on an AMD XP 2800+? I've done many encoding on my computer before, regardless of speed or not, but I don't want to throw it away just because I cannot use a program.

Please concider these points.

[nm]

It's not because it's under GPL that you can do everything you want IMO.
There is indeed a problem with bundling GPL software into RealAnime LE, which is closed source. I suggest Sirber to read the license and the FAQ (http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html) through, especially the part about "Combining work with code released under the GPL".

If RealAnime LE was released under the GPL, there would probably be no license problems. Is there a reason why it is not? If you don't want to put the source code on your web page, GPL also allows you to keep it to yourself and only send it to people who request it. Of course, if you also use software licensed under other terms than GPL, you must verify that all the licenses are compatible and that you follow their restrictions. Otherwise you need to contact all the developers of the modules you use, and ask their permissions.

Also note that if you follow all the licenses properly, in case of open source licenses there is usually no need to contact the authors or ask permissions. License is an agreement between the developer and various users of the software, and for example GPL does not require the authors of modified works to contact the authors of the original work, although it is still a nice thing to do.

[Sirber]

Can I have a GPL-covered program and an unrelated non-free program on the same computer?
Yes. The "mere aggregation" clause in the GPL makes this permission explicit, but that only reinforces what we believe would be true anyway.I bundle the binary of BeLight, which wasn't modified. Also, RealAnime does not use it, it just start it if the user click on it. It's like you clicking on a file through Explorer, and explorer doesn't need to be GPL.

LE version is closed source coz I want it closed, nothing more.

[nm]

I bundle the binary of BeLight, which wasn't modified. Also, RealAnime does not use it, it just start it if the user click on it. It's like you clicking on a file through Explorer, and explorer doesn't need to be GPL.

Well, I wasn't actually referring to BeLight, but to all the programs and libraries that you are using. Personally, I think you are walking on the edge here. Your bundled software package forms a system, where the user interface depends on various modules to work properly. See for example: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLInProprietarySystem
To make things a bit more clear, consider a case where you would sell your software without mentioning the bundled "external" modules that are being used. Do you think this would be right? GPL does not make a difference between that situation and what is now the case with RealAnime LE; both can be interpreted to be against the license.

Even if your view on the situation was correct, authors of the various software packages might not think the same way. As we have already seen to happen here.

[Sirber]

ok then, I will GPL it then. So much fuzz over nothing :devil:

[nm]

So much fuzz over nothing :devil:
Indeed. Sorry for being such a nuisance, but being the free software fanatic I am, I just couldn't help myself :)

[Sirber]

It not because it's closed source that it's not a free software ;)

Also, LE sources is based on RealAnime 3.2, which is open source :p

[nm]

I meant free software as in http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html ;)

[stephanV]

Actually I don't think Sirber is violating the GPL here, at least he doesn't need to. He only has to make clear that the GPL-ed software he bundles with his non-GPL software still falls under the GPL and not under his own license.

(relevant passage from the FAQ):
However, in many cases you can distribute the GPL-covered software alongside your proprietary system. To do this validly, you must make sure that the free and non-free programs communicate at arms length, that they are not combined in a way that would make them effectively a single program.

The GPL does not require to inform the authors of the code about the redistribution of it, anyone is free to redistribute the binaries and code as long as he follows the GPL. Neither can the original author forbid redistribution of his code as long as the GPL is followed.

I don't see how the situation here is any different from say, AutoGK.

[Sirber]

Then I will add GPL in my installer and my "own license". Thanks stephanV!

[IgorC]

Sirber How about to change RealAnime to x264Anime or AVCAnime ;)
It will be more clear for people who wants to use x264 (or something neutral - nor Real neither x264 ). But it's only what I think. Indeed it's your project.

[Sirber]

Since 2.0, RealAnime is more than Real, with VFW codecs and with 3.x, x264 CLI. RealAnime name is kinda well known also...

Maybe:
* RealAnime X
* xAnime

I should start a poll...

[Kurtnoise]

Now my big question, may I please use your BeSweet GUI in my software as an external tool?
Sure you can... :p but for what for ?


They are external tools not used directly by RealAnime.
It's really funny...:D :D :D :D :D :D btw, I totally agree with Eretria-chan concerning the huge package. That's why I ask this. And I never said you broken the license also. But whatever now...good luck for the future RealAnime dev.

A good advice for you: use matroska.dll to parse mkv. You can have much more infos than MediaInfo with this library. :)

[Sirber]

Sure you can... :p but for what for ?As a complementary tool :) LE doesn't do vorbis or mp3, so if sometime you want to compress a DVD, you can use RealAnime LE for the video, then use BeLight for the audio, then you use Matroska GUI to merge all back.
It's really funny...:D :D :D :D :D :D btw, I totally agree with Eretria-chan concerning the huge package. That's why I ask this. And I never said you broken the license also. But whatever now...good luck for the future RealAnime dev. I did a mega package so the noob user doesn't have to get it all. This version is more limited than it's big brother (Look in Video tab, just "Quality").
A good advice for you: use matroska.dll to parse mkv. You can have much more infos than MediaInfo with this library. :)
I will ahve a look at it, thanks! :D

[Sirber]

Found bugs:

x264: avis [error]: unsupported input format (YUY2)
LE: fail if audio is not MP3 (need to add PCM at least)

[DeathTheSheep]

Hm... for some odd reason it ain't workin' on my computer (xp,512ram, celeronD 3ghz, nero6.6, etc). It still says:
http://www.thefilehut.com/userfiles/xsquaredx/error.PNG

[Sirber]

Yeah, I decreased the specs to P3 and 256MB RAM, also new build (not released yet) will get the files it needs from nero automaticly.

I'm also looking for a new name:
RealAnime X
xAnime
ZeX

they are all great :(

[DeathTheSheep]

How about Ralé?! Real Anime Light Edition -> Ralé...

Darn that's a nifty name. Can't beat it!

[Sirber]

The problem someone posted before was the "Real" in it. LE has nothing to do with Real anymore.

[Anacondo]

How about AnimeX?

[ggab]

nice release! :)

LE is for Lite Edition, no?


PS: I would also like to use the WinAmp's encoder in RA LE (via dimzon's framework + CLI & besweet) since it is "better" than nero (6.x) and can go lower without much quality loss. In special, i am very happy with 24kbps + PS (great quality).

bye, regards GABriel

[Sirber]

Yeah, LE is for Light Edition.

About winamp, I'll give it a try.

[Eretria-chan]

How about zones? Aby possibiity of zone usage? It would really helpful, at least for low bit-rate encodes.
I have no idea what settings RealAnime uses x264.

[Sirber]

I could add zones... but that's "advanced" while LE is for noobs.
Maybe this will be in the XML only (manual settings).

About the settings, you can have a look here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=100600

[Eretria-chan]

But it is such a great application. Why not add an advanced mode? VirtualDub can't handle the audio compression with HE-AAC while realanime can. That's why I like your software =) I'd very much appreciate zones, but the decision is yours...
I'll look at the settings! Thanks!

Even though the new version is for n00bs, it's still RealAnime and to what I understand, you will not add anything else to your old RealAnime 3.x app, so that leaves me with the LE version...

[Sirber]

Except for the HE-AAC codec, you can do pretty much the same with 3.0 and LE. LE is just more cool, more small and more user friendly, but more cool :D.

I'll check if there is a simple way to add them (for the user), if not, then it will be in the XML.

[DeathTheSheep]

Can't forget the coolness factor! And yes, it has tons of stuff virtualdub doesn't (except for capturing, you can use any AVISynth filter you want). I second the opinion that you should use the Winamp AAC--its better than Nero's current implementation by like 5 times (check out the dbPowerAmp thread).

Keep the development going: this is a useful, user-friendly app which will actually get some "n00bs" (the AutoGKers of the world) into more versitile compression stuff.

Kudos

[Eretria-chan]

And a last thing to note is the requirements: not everyone has nero, not to say not a valid nero installation. And not everyone has a pentium 4 (or amd 64) w/ 512 mb of memory. I think you should put them as RECOMMENDED. The app will still run on lower specs, but perhaps not as well.
And if you don't have nero, then well, you can't do HE-AAC, simply put.

Except for the HE-AAC codec, you can do pretty much the same with 3.0 and LE. LE is just more cool, more small and more user friendly, but more cool .

I'll check if there is a simple way to add them (for the user), if not, then it will be in the XML.
Yes, but RealAnime doesn't have zones ;) And no new features will come. Therefore LE will be the best!

[Sirber]

For Alpla 2 I will require a P3 or higher, and at least 256MB of RAM. Alpha 2 will require Winamp 5 instead of Nero :D

I can't bundle HE-AAC codecs for legal reasons. I don't want Ahead or AOL to sue me :)

[Eretria-chan]

No, but you can prompt the users who don't have it that it is required to perform HE-AAC audio compression. I don't have winamp installed, I merely have the compression codec. I think that's a better idea, although I do suppose many have winamp installed.
But that codec only comes with pro version (not free), I think?

[Sirber]

I don't know. I currently popup the user if I cannot find the Nero codecs. LE only does HE-AAC, so if no codec, no encoding. I can't add vorbis coz I can't put it in MP4 (standart).

[ggab]

Eretria-chan, he-aac (+PS) encoding is free in Winamp 5.1 :) (the only limitation is ripping from cd-audio at 8x speed maximum, but with transcoding, no problems at all!)


Realanime rocks! ;)

[Eretria-chan]

Ehhh, no matter. I have that anyway (without any paymeny thank you very much). If these (especially zones and winamp aac) are added, I look very much forward to your next release :D

I almost forgot. About the filesize problem, if you could make a installer that detcts what components you have and downloads what you need, it should be fine and small. Though it might be a little hazard to write, I'm sure there are source code for such an app out there somewhere.

[Sirber]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=720802#post720802

Zones should be added, but not in the GUI. Maybe they will be an external file managed by a "tool" in the tools tab.

[Sirber]

PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Error: Berkeley DB error while opening environment for filesystem /var/svn/detritus/db:
Error: DB_RUNRECOVERY: Fatal error, run database recovery
Error: bdb: PANIC: fatal region error detected; run recovery

[Doom9]

guys, looking at sirber's program description, this is an anime re-encoding tool. So features like zones are a bit out of scope and better suited for a DVD re-encoding tool like MeGUI: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96032 (which incidentally has that particular feature, as well as your choice of container output)

And as far as the AAC encoder goes.. I have yet to see the numbers that make sense for a movie backup scenario.. say Nero 5.1 HE AAC in Quality mode at 192 - 224 kbit/s versus Winamp CBR (there's no ABR/VBR/quality mode). Decidedly unfair because Nero can do CBR, but the only comparison that makes any sense (you don't stick to CBR if you have something better). I'm in the same shoes here (MeGUI) as Sirber and I suppose he'd need just the same justification as I do to support other AAC encoders.

[Sirber]

Zones can be usefull in anime, if you want to compress more the intro and credits to make very low bitrate encodes.

About AAC, I use CBR to get "constant filesize", that's all.

About DVD, LE is not for DVD encoding, it could work, but it's not the best tool for that matter.

[DeathTheSheep]

Yes. My thoughts exactly.

Zones: They can be useful for the intro/extro (especially at low BR where you need to sqeeze in more quality for the main parts)

AAC: CBR should definately be used to obtain constant filesize.
you don't stick to CBR if you have something better
True, but I've yet to see (or, more accurately, "hear" :D) any AAC-HE audio codec that is better than CT's in CBR mode, even when compared to Nero's ABR or VBR at similar bitrates. So, as for rational explanation of using CT's encoder--the quality is far superior to Nero's current implementation even when comparing a CBR setting against Nero's VBR. I believe I saw a few threads about this on hydrogenaudio.

Good luck with the program! ;)
Unless, of course, you are re-encoding an anime DVD rip ;-)

[Sirber]

Well, LE will handle D2V and AC3, but you have some manual tasks to do to get MKV.

[Sirber]

bug: priority is not repected. I'm asking IDLE and I get NORMAL.

[rushin_911]

May I suggest the addition of vorbis for audio? The latest beta (Autov4) sounds acceptable at -q 0 (which I think is roughly equivilant to 64 kbps) and I think at this bitrate it might be better than HE-AAC and probably less resource internsive when decoding (well whether it sounds better or not is simply a subjective opinion, I really don't have any tests to support that claim at this bitrate but you can test it and see the results for yourself :) )

[Sirber]

I tested vorbis up down to q-2 and IMO HE-AAC sound definitly better. Also, for LE, I want to stick with 1 audio codec and 1 video codec, which both can be put fellowing the standarts in MKV and MP4.

I'm currently looking to using Winamp HE-AAC instead of Nero.

[Sirber]

Worked on LE for alpah 2:

Audio: I added winamp aac+ v2 encoder and removed nero.
Video: Added multi-ref to extreme quality preset and Adaptive Quantization to high and extreme preset.

[edit]

removed Adaptive Quantization, does more blocks than good :(

[ggab]

cool, we will have the new standard for anime = he-aac +PS 32kbps !
"you can enable it in x264 via the --mixed-refs switch"

Did a full encode on anime content, at 400kbps (inc. 32kbps audio), video is better than using 500kbps (inc 64kbps audio) when using the new multi-ref.
Ques1: Will RA LE use the new multi-ref as default profile?

Ques1: And with (future) updated x264 releases, where new parameters improving the encoding in general might be added:
Will we be able to use them only if they are in the GUI (or via an optional command line tab within the GUI)?

[Sirber]

1) Since "--multi-ref" is atrocely slow (4FPS with, 8FPS whitout on my 3000+) it's only avalible in "Extreme" quality preset.

2) Futur features will be avalible with new LE updates. I could add a switch in the XML for manual cmdline params for x264 and besweet (to be used at your own risk).

[Sirber]

Added:
* Winamp aac+ v2 + PS
* Multi-ref for Extreme Quality preset (x264)
* Stop button

Updated:
* Defaults: video: 368kbps, audio 32kbps + PS
* Profil management (audio bitrate didn't save)
* x264 rev 322F
* Error managment
* BeLight 0.2.2.0 beta 8

Removed:
* Nero aac+ v1

Please delete "RealAnime.xml" after installing, prior using

RealAnimeLE_a2.exe (http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/realanimele/RealAnimeLE_a2.exe) (13MB)

[Eretria-chan]

Ooooh, a new build. I will test it ^_^

[Kayser]

Great work Sirber! I've been encoding with RealAnime LE Alpha 2 and so far it's been working great... I'm amazed with that new multi ref thing, congratulations to X264 developers! I have a little request, in a future release or when you have the time could you please add something to let the user change the priority for X264? Thank you very much

[Sirber]

IDLE is not good enough for you? Maybe you want more? :devil:

I'll add a dropdown menu in the output tab.

Thanks for your comments!

May I ask which bitrate do you use? :)

[Kayser]

Lol :P... The fact is that I use low priority when I'm using the computer but that drops the fps by 1,5 (more or less) so when I'm not around I would love to leave it on normal priority.
As for the bitrate, I only encode anime content so I tend to use your presets, generally from 400 to 500 and 64 for audio. I couldn't believe my eyes when I encoded at 368 with extreme quality...
Is there much of a difference (quality wise) between 2 and 3 passes (both with fast first pass)?... I made some tests and didn't notice the difference, maybe the source I choosed was not the best.

[Sirber]

I made some tests and with 3 pass (only first one is fast) and I noticed with 3 pass, image is more stable and a bit more detailled. (Naruto intro)

IMHO it's worth to do 3 pass at extreme, even if it's dead slow :D

[Eretria-chan]

I did notice one thing...
It is still not possible to encode at HE-AAC @ 8 kbps. It didn't work when I tried belight some time ago either. My guess it is the plugin that doesn't support it. But what can you do? Would it not make sense to remove than "8" from the list, then?

I'll test, test away! :D Let's see how extreme 3-pass w/ 200 bitrate and full inloop filter does =)

[Sirber]

ish, don't full inloop! +1 is quite enough.

I will remove 8kbps in next release :)

[Eretria-chan]

Not quite so for 200 kbps though. I did try that before. It removes blockiness from all but complex scenes last I tried. Haven't tested extreme mode, that's what I'll try now ^_^ And including zones, I'll get a perfect small size encode!

[Sirber]

no zones yet... but it would a nice addition.

[Eretria-chan]

Yep, totally agree with you :) Looking forward to when/if zones get added. Until then, I'll experiment a little more maybe.

[JoeBG]

A perfect stupid question: Why only avi input?

I would really enjoy avisynth input with a commandline :)

[Sirber]

It's a freaking alpha, so only AVI works :p. Final version will have the same input capabilities as RealAnime 3.0, so AVI, D2V, OGM, MKV, WAV, MP3, AC3, AAC, OGG and no AVS. I tryed to manage AVS with RealAnime 3.x and it was a complete mess. It's extremely difficult to know what "tracks" an AVS produce by analyzing the code, and I have no tool to get the infos on it.

If you want to use filters, there's a tab for that.

[Kayser]

So RealAnime 3.2 does support OGM? I thought it didn't because I've never been able to successfully get one of those encoded... It doesn't matter what the source is (ogm of course) it encodes it successfully (both audio and video) but after it mux the files it deletes both temp the files and the newly encoded one :S. It happened with mkv as well till 3.0 rc4 or so (I don't remember quite well) but that got solved. Must be some missing something or misconfiguration by my side

[Sirber]

since 3.0, OGM and MKV work.

RC release were "betas" too. Bugs happens and should be reported ASAP :)

[IgorC]

Sirber
How about HE-AAC2 with Parametric Stereo (Winamp or db) support? Quality is higher than HE-AAC1. Nero7 also contains HE-AAC2

[Sirber]

Already done. Alpha 2 use Winamp with PS bellow 48kbps. :D

[IgorC]

Sorry, I didnt notice that.

[SenorKaffee]

Does RealAnime depend on a certain version of Nero or does it already work with Nero 7?

[Eretria-chan]

Ummm... alpha 2 doesn't rely on nero at all. It uses winamp plugin for HE-AAC.

[Sirber]

Here's a sample I took from my last encode at 368+32kbps, 1m30s from the 24 minute clip so you can look at the quality.

Source: Naruto 155, 170MB, xvid, mp3
Video: x264 @ 368kbps, 3pass with fast first, Extreme Quality, Inloop +1, 3 bframes
Audio: AAC+ v2 @ 32kbps with Parametric Stereo, Normalized
Filtering: none
Output: 68MB Matroska

http://www.mytempdir.com/206755

Note: you will need the latest ffdshow and use "ffdshow audio" for AAC decoding with "libfaac2".
Note 2: settings used are RealAnime LE alpha 2 defaults.

[Sharktooth]

Well, it's quite outstanding considering the bitrate and the resolution...

[Kayser]

Hi again Sirber. I want to change the build of X264 that RALE runs, is that possible? Just by replacing in /bin the x264.exe is fine? or do I have to change something somewhere else?

[Sirber]

RealAnime LE use MD5 hash to validate the binaries. You would have to get the source, update the MD5 and recompile. ;)

Yeah, just switch the x264.exe and you are free to go :)

[Kayser]

Thank you Sirber. I'm getting 34 fps in fast first pass with the new build... That's 7fps faster than before. And on the slow passes i get roughly 7.5 frames at extreme quality.

[Sirber]

Yep. I shall increase the number of refs in alpha 3.

Currently:
Very low (fast): 1
Low: 2
Medium: 3
High: 5
Extreme: 8

Alpha 3:
Very low (fast): 1
Low: 3
Medium: 5
High: 8
Extreme: 16

What do you think?

[Kayser]

If it helps quality then it will be very welcome, I never used more than 5-8. Dunno why I decided that would be enough :S... I'll try 16 with megui to check the results.

[Sirber]

16 would help mixed-refs, but might get the speed down again :)

[ggab]

how do u get the OP or another selection from a full episode (~70mb, in MKV) file?

i've tried with vdubmod, but fails (Sirber's Naruto155_OP.mkv)
sshot:
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/9602/dibujo12348rk.png

[Sirber]

woot woot :D

Well, I did something not cool to break it. I remerged it with mkvmerge and asked to split the duration I wanted, then when first fle was finished, I terminated it :).

Encodes made by RealAnime LE migth not be VFW compatible, since they are pure AVC in MKV streams, and not hacked AVC in AVI (like RealAnime 3.x).

About PocketPC playback, I did a test with an encode made with LE (defaults) and TCPMP 0.66h benched at 1.8% realtime :(

[bratao]

Siber, i here to only say, your program its the only taht i can use without Headacth , its simple and good !!

Keep Up your good work, and i cant convert mpg files.. :(

[Sirber]

Thanks for the comments!

I will look into MPEG input after I'm done with MKV and MP4, but I'm sure it will be included before Beta 1 :D

[Sirber]

version 1.0 will be Open Source under GNU GPL.

[Kayser]

Sorry to bother you again Sirber... Just a noobish question :P... Will RALE work under WXP 64bits with squid_80's x264 compile?

[Sirber]

RALE is compiled 32bit using Delphi 7 compiler. I'm sure you can use x264.exe (64bit) with avisynth (64bit). The problem is RALE load a bunch of filters (32bit) which can't be loaded in Avisynth (64bit). I'll add a XML entry to prevent the load of filters (LE alpha 3).

[Kayser]

I see, thank you very much Sirber ^^

[Sirber]

My pleasure :). But, alpha 3 will take some time to dev (and release). I'm rewritting the Analysis module to use MediaInfo for any source, as well as an extraction engine for MP4/MKV(OGM).

[DeathTheSheep]

May I suggest the addition of vorbis for audio? The latest beta (Autov4) sounds acceptable at -q 0 (which I think is roughly equivilant to 64 kbps) and I think at this bitrate it might be better than HE-AAC and probably less resource internsive when decoding (well whether it sounds better or not is simply a subjective opinion, I really don't have any tests to support that claim at this bitrate but you can test it and see the results for yourself :) )

I've found out from hydrogenaudio that quite the opposite is true: HE-AAC can decode at *almost* the speed of MP3 decoding (as opposed to Vorbis's much higher complexity), and even Nero's old HE-AAC won over Vorbis (by quite a landslide), barring the much better CT1.1 encoder, according to rather professional tests at hydrogenaudio.

I think the "standard" MPEG-4 AAC would be a much better option than Vorbis at a 64kbps bitrate. At 80kbps+, Vorbis takes the quality lead but leaves a bit to be desired when it comes to decoding speed. Not, of course, that it would matter on any modern computer, but for PPC or other devices, you might wanna consider the less-complex (and therefore power-saving) standard format: AAC-HE.

[Sirber]

RealAnime LE use an audio bitrate between 16 and 64kbps, and HE-AAC is by far better.

[ggab]

Sirber, are u "agree" with this Sharktooth's Anime Profiles: (in particular the x264's settings he had selected as the recommended ones...)

Profiles for Anime/Toons (2 or more passes)
AE-Standard: 2 passes, Main Profile, standard quality.
AE-Goodquality: Slower than AE-Standard, High Profile, higher quality.
AE-Maxquality: 3 passes, slowest mode and maxed out settings, best quality.
Download link: www.webalice.it/f.corriga/x264/MeGUI_AE-profiles.7z

i think that your words/comment will be very nice, from a great anime's encoder guy, like you :)

thks

[Sirber]

Sharktooth asked me about what to use and built them. Personally I don't use MeGUI nor those profiles, so I cannot say which profil will give best quality over which default bitrate in MeGUI.

[Sirber]

Bug found: Stop button does nothing good :(

Maybe no one pressed it yet... LOL :D

[Kayser]

Lol, I noticed but forgot to report it :P sorry ^^;;... I stop the process when I have to shutdown RALE.
I've run into some files (XviD video and MP3 audio) that are wrongly encoded both in RALE and RA3.2, dunno if it's a bug or something with BeSweet or whatever. The thing is that I encoded in RALE a few files and the audio was like 5 secs lagged in some of them, so I decided to encode the lagged files with RealAnime 3.2 and it does the same. Maybe it's futile to test it in both versions, but sometimes I run into avis that RALE can't encode or encode well and RA3.2 does. Do you know any other thing worth testing?
Thank you in advance Sirber

[Sirber]

I would need the sources. RA3.2 and RALE runs almost the same core, but RALE has updated components.

[CvH]

nice tool, but i had 1 question

is Extreme profile includes the best possible options for quality ? or exist options where x264 produce better quality (speed is not the question ... if it takes 2 days that wouldn´t be a problem)

[Kayser]

I can point you to one of the sources if you want Sirber, I'll pm you the link

[Sirber]

is Extreme profile includes the best possible options for quality ? or exist options where x264 produce better quality (speed is not the question ... if it takes 2 days that wouldn´t be a problem)It uses the best options avalible while being realist. :)

[spinstate]

Does realanime LE have support for multichannel ac3 input?

[Sirber]

not yet, but it's planned.

[LAIN]

Hi,

I'v found a bug in the current release. some may have encounter the problem. It's with the profile "HIGH" with 3 pass, there was a mistake in the source code of the command line that is needed by x264 to work properly. The correction is made for the next release.

I'm currently testing the encode with MKV and OGM files (this will be available in the next release).


I only have a bug with besweet with vorbis audio with 6channel (it made a error) i'v tried with belight and it doesn't work eather. i'll take a look if there is a way to avoid this problem.


LAIN

[Sirber]

I found why temp files aren't deleting:

if (result <> 0) then
exit;

mkvmerge throw some warnings, so exitCode = 1 and nothing is deleted. It will be fixed for next release.

[Sirber]

I'm thinking about merging video and audio tabs, but I'm missing space. I'm thinking about removing the big bframe setting and hardcode to 3. What do you think?

[ggab]

the cosmetics changes are welcome :)

IMHO, the priority todo list is improve / fix all the un-expected ExitCodes (probably because the whole variety of video files...)

byebye

[Sirber]

removing BFrames is not cosmetic... ;)

and I don't understand the second part :confused:

[Kayser]

Do you mean taking out the Bframes control under video tab? Personally I don't mind since I don't change bframes, everyone encodes with 2 or 3 so I never really bothered to try another value :P

[Sirber]

ok. well, it's been removed :D:

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/realanimele/screens/a3.JPG

[Kayser]

Wow, I see next release will include CQM support. Yay for livabcodec and yay for RALE. I've been wanting to try the video filtering thing and today is the day, are there any filters I should try first for anime content Sirber?

[Sirber]

You should filter if your source is clean. Except denoising and sharpening, I don't filter much :)

[Kayser]

I'll keep that in mind, thank you for the tip Sirber!

[Sirber]

Best ask elsewhere about filtering, like in AVISynth forums :)
I don't have much background in filtering... :(

[Sirber]

I made a little test with CQM (AVC Low Bitrate Matrice) on my hard naruto intro and here's the result, using LE defaults:

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/psnr.PNG
368kbps, everything used, 3 bframes

:confused:

[Sirber]

oh crap. :confused:

alpha 3 @ Extreme, a big 1.6FPS (a2 was at ~8) :(

Is that extreme enough?

[Kayser]

LOL, that's really really slow. I suggest you change the extreme name to "Insane" or something :P

[Sirber]

I will add a preset "Insane". Thanks for the hint! :D

[Sirber]

Added:
* OGM input support
* MKV input support (thanks Lain)
* D2V input support
* Source information popup
* "Insane!!!" quality profil
* mp4guy's Low Bitrate Matrice
* CPU priority selection

Updated:
* Stop button (still crappy)
* x264 rev 362A
* Profiles
* MediaInfo 0.7.0.4

Notes:
* Delete "RealAnime.xml" from the isntallation folder before using
* Install all bundeled apps if yours are outdated or you will have playback issues.
* Set "ffdshow audio" to decode AAC using libfaac2.
* OGM and MKV encode all tracks, discarding the settings.
* 8FPS at Extreme is now 3FPS on my AMD64 3000+ :(

http://www.detritus.qc.ca/#rale

[Kayser]

Lol, you actualy did the insane thingy :P... I'll test alpha 3, if I find something I'll let you know. By the way, the extreme from alpha 2 is equal in quality with high in alpha 3?

[Sirber]

nope. High is still High. Extreme and Insane were boosted (trellis, RDO patch (w/ bframes).

// Presets
case setting.video_quality of
0: // Lowest
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me dia ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 1 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 0 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "none" ';
end;
1: // Low
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me dia ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 3 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 3 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "p8x8" ';
end;
2: // Medium
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me hex ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 4 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 5';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "i4x4,p8x8,b8x8" ';
end;
3: // High
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me umh ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 5 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--8x8dct ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 8 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "i4x4,i8x8,p4x4,p8x8,b8x8" ';
end;
4: // Extreme
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me umh ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 6 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--8x8dct ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--trellis 1 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--mixed-refs ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 12 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "i4x4,i8x8,p4x4,p8x8,b8x8" ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--b-rdo ';
end;
5: // Insane!!!
begin
strOptions := strOptions + '--me umh ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--subme 7 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--8x8dct ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--trellis 2 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--mixed-refs ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--ref 16 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--merange 24 ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--analyse "i4x4,i8x8,p4x4,p8x8,b8x8" ';
strOptions := strOptions + '--b-rdo ';
end;
end;

[spinstate]

* 8FPS at Extreme is now 3FPS on my AMD64 3000+
Same for me bleh...T_T

How about making trellis quantization optional like in xvid? or does b-rdo also contribute to the slowdown?

[Sirber]

How about making trellis quantization optional like in xvid?Wouldn't be logical to have trellis not in the profiles, since all options are in it :) Trellis slowdown is 20% for a 0.2db gain.
does b-rdo also contribute to the slowdown?Yes, but I don't know how much.

If you need speed I suggest you use "High". :(

[Sirber]

It seems looks like the "Low Bitrate Matrice" makes lots of muskito noise killing shapes. :(

[edit]

I removed it from "default" and I suggest you don't use it at 368kbps or more.

[Sirber]

Here's 600kb patch with removed matrice by default, matrice version 2 (untested) and x264 rev 362B.

http://www.mytempdir.com/249164

[Sirber]

I think I will remove '--b-rdo ' from Extreme. It's way too slow (Extreme mode).

[Sharktooth]

update to rev365 build... it "should" fix --subme 7.

[Sirber]

thanks! It will be used with LE beta 1 :D

[Sirber]

now with Extreme I'm at ~5FPS (trellis only).

Trellis: -3 FPS
B RDO: -2 FPS

[Sharktooth]

yeah but update x264 to rev365 builds or every preset which use --subme 7 can potentially crash x264.

[Sirber]

Only "Insanity!!!" uses --subme7, and for the few that use it, they can get it manually :)

Releasing LE is very bandwith consuming ;)

[spinstate]

Releasing LE is very bandwith consuming ;)

Maybe you could use NSIS (http://nsis.sourceforge.net/) for making the installer? With it's LZMA compression you could get the file size down to around 8.5~ MB. ;)

[CvH]

NSIS 2.08 is allready used for the Setup ;)

[bratao]

Only "Insanity!!!" uses --subme7, and for the few that use it, they can get it manually :)

Releasing LE is very bandwith consuming ;)
Bittorrent ??

Sibier i love your program, its the only one that works, its like a hell to me to use Megui, its just hard to use...

Ti will test the A3, thank you !

[Sirber]

Thanks for all the sweet comments :D

@bratao

I'm not sure I have enough downloads to need bittorrent :)

[Kayser]

Concerning X264 crashing, when using 362A and extreme profile at least for me it randomly crashes. Trinity Blood ep 20 at 55% (and others) crashed, displayed a X264 error in the status bar... I updated X264 and is working fine (for the last few hours at least :P)

[Sirber]

Ok. Good to know :) WHat was the error #?

I made a function to select the right track (ex: japanese) for audio and subtitle. If the language is not found, all track will be encoded.

Lain is working on a better MKV implementation and MP4.

[Kayser]

The error said something like "X264 error #104564324" or some weird number like that. I can reproduce the error to tell you the exact number if you want. I discovered it happens as well with lastest X264 rev (365). It encodes well the audio track, and somewhere when encoding the video track X264 crashes or something (the video track up to that frame is well encoded, it crashes around the 40-60 mb but I don't think that's important). At least with extreme and a bunch of my sources that is :P
I switched back to RALE alpha 2 to test the same exact sources with the same X264 rev and had no problem at all finishing the encode so I presume it has something to do with the new aditions to the extreme preset.

[Sirber]

the build you have, a3 uses trellis. The error you got is access violation :D. In next release Trellis is only in Insane. I'll post a new EXE tonight.

[Kayser]

Ok, thank you Sirber, hope I helped a bit at least :P
Edit: Oh, another thing that's worth considering that it never crashed when testing it with small files (like ~15 that are the intros that I test quality with), only with big files (160+)

[Sharktooth]

rev365A is up... another update to RD. test subme 7 vs subme 6 before including it.

[Sirber]

I tested it before releasing :(

I got no crash in my tests.

[Eretria-chan]

Give any new build to me (or threaten me to setup an ftp)! I'll make sure you won't be hurting for bandwidth every time you release something new or a patch! Really nice to see a new build! :D

Btw, from your alpha 3 post. A typo:
Notes:
* Delete "RealAnime.xml" from the isntallation folder before using

[Sirber]

Thanks for the offer! A mirror is always welcome :)

[Sirber]

I think I will update the profiles for beta 1. Speed got terribly too low. New "High" will be kinda like old Extreme.

[edit]

I removed "--b-rdo" from extreme. It will be in Insane only with trellis. ~2FPS is way too low :)

[Eretria-chan]

Thanks for the offer! A mirror is always welcome :)
I did set up an ftp, if you want it, where you can upload any updates / patches you want, if bandwidth is a problem. Any updates / patches are really welcome! They always are!

[Sirber]

I did set up an ftp, if you want it, where you can upload any updates / patches you want, if bandwidth is a problem. Any updates / patches are really welcome! They always are!Cool! Alpha 4 will be out this weekend (full 15MB). Then, give me a link and I will post it on my web site. Thanks! :D

About Alpha 4, people who was using "Extreme", I recommend you use "High" instead. Extreme got really more slow (as well as Insane ;)), so I added "mixed-refs" to High.

[Sirber]

FINALLY!!!

I got the Stop buttonm working #1 :D

Hurray!!!

[Eretria-chan]

Hi Sirber,

The link to the directory where the files will be uploaded is http://www.eluni.net/downloads/RealAnimeLE

Then just add your filename to it, of course. I set up an ftp in case you want to upload it there, in case you need bandwidth. I'll send the login information through a pm. If you don't want it, I can always upload those files manually when I have the time.

Cheers!

EDIT: Forgot to mention that there is a 100 mb quota. It is a safe precaution only.

[Sirber]

Many thanks! I will put a4 this weekend on it (as well as in the other places).

What's to come is... MP4 input :D

[Sirber]

New:
* MP4 input management
* OGM/MKV/MP4 track selection using language infos
* XML configuration version

Updated:
* Low Bitrate matrice (mp4's guy) updated to v2
* Profiles ("Extreme" users please rollback to "High")
* x264 rev 367
* ffdshow 2005-11-03

Fixed:
* Stop button really stopping now :D

ToDo:
* Audio input (WAV, AAC (2 channels), AC3, MP3)

Notes:
* You will lose your configuration: RealAnimeLE.xml will be renamed to RealAnimeLE.xml.crap
* "Extreme" and "Insane!!!" profiles use experimental features which kill the encoding speed. Please use High instead, which have the sqme quality as alpha 2 "Extreme".
* This is the latest alpha. Please report any bugs / feature request ASAP.
* Many thanks to Lain and Eretria-chan for their support! :D

Happy trying! :D

Download: http://www.detritus.qc.ca

[Kayser]

Thank you Sirber, I'll test it today, if I find something I'll tell you.

Edit: I tested OGM and the ususal AVI imput and everything works great! Good job Sirber and the RALE team!

[EvilSin]

Overall alpha 4 works very well. Thanks Sirber for creating a great and simplified version.

Just one Suggestion, Keep Working on this project! :thanks:

I just can not believe how good the quality is when you compare it to the original file I am re-encoding. x264 is a great encoder and it shows a lot of good things to come. Now that I have found a great tool to compress my anime further and can start archiving them on dvd.

So far using the defaults and Insane!!! setting I am getting about 56fps using fast first pass and on 2nd and 3rd pass I get about 5.6fps. (amdx2 4200+)

Looks like that either you changed the insane setting from last alpha or the newer x264 bin is helping me squezze out a few more fps than before.

[Sirber]

@Kayser

At last! A working RealAnime! ;)

@EvilSin

Thanks! :D

[EvilSin]

I have encountered a sound problem.....

The sound for my encodes are all off.... I do not know by how much but there is definately a difference when you play the original and the final encoded version. I only noticed because some of the scenes where somone is getting hit and the sound effect is off. The original is dead on.

Using 32kbps Parametric Stereo Normalize

General
Complete name : C:\!Encoded\[Lunar] ****** - 01 [2101CD82].avi
File size : 175 MiB
Format : Audio Video Interleave
Overal BitRate : 1055 KBps
PlayTime : 23mn 14s

Video #0
Codec : XviD
Bit rate : 914 KBps
Width : 640
Height : 480
Aspect ratio : 4/3
Frame rate : 23.976
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.124

Audio #0
Codec : MPEG1/2 L3
Bit rate : 128 KBps
Channels : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48 KHz


and I have seen same problem on the next 5 episodes.

I am going to try a different series by a different group and see if same problem occurs.

Also Ill try them with different audio settings to see if that makes any difference.

[Kayser]

I have that same problem but with random episodes, no specific series...

[Sirber]

I only noticed because some of the scenes where somone is getting hit and the sound effect is off. The original is dead on.I don't understand :confused:

[edit]

Also, please don't post serie names since they may be licensed and it's against rule #6. Thanks.

[Kayser]

Sorry for breaking the rule, I didn't notice when I replied ^^;;... What he means, if it is the same problem as mine, is that the audio goes out of sync with the video in the encoded file while in the original one it's perfectly ok.

[Sirber]

ha! Maybe it's VBR mp3. I had that trouble with some series, but I cannot fix that automaticly. Best way is to remerge the output MKV with mkvmerge gui and add an audio delay.

[Sirber]

I'm making a bitrate calculator to bundle with RealAnime LE. It's in C# and will require .NET Framework 2.0. I plan to use C# in my next apps instead of delphi 7.

[edit]

If someone wants to test it...

[EvilSin]

Well i downloaded the mkvtoolnix package and fixed the audio delay with mkvmerge and now it plays well :devil: only took like 20 seconds for it to fix it.

Is the bitrate calc going to be intergrated? becuase if it was it would be cool to see what the file already loaded into RLE, kind of how you can get the media info throught the right click menu.

*Thought* I personally use files off a network drive. Now all the files I use have pretty long directory trees. I like to organize my collections. *To the Point* Can you make it so it only shows the file name and not the directory in the Input screen? or make it so we can turn it on or off for people who want it?

The main reason for me is because I have to scroll over to see what file it is on and since I use long directory trees it is still hard to see all the filenames in the one screen without scrolling over to see them.

[Eretria-chan]

As much as I hate to say it, I am no fan of C#. It's basically becoming another Visual Basic, but managed. I would still stay clear of it, since I've had nothing but troubles with it. I still recommend regular, NATIVE C++. Ah, but it's not my choice; it's yours, of course.

[bratao]

Sirber,
Maybe you can take a look in c++ with a Wxwidget libary..With your so beloved RAD, wx-devcpp
to me is the easyest and fastest language, and the best ide that i already seen.
https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=95606
And its c++, you can compile anywere, to any S.O

[Sirber]

@EvilSin

I'll give it a try

@Eretria-chan

I'm currently looking for a new job and a lot of business ask for C# or .NET skills which I don't have. I already know well PHP (HTML, jscript, SQL), VB6 and Delphi 7 VCL, so it can only be good to learn something new.

@bratao

I thought about that, making a GUI cross platform, but I terribly lack time (and linux opengl support;)).

[Eretria-chan]

Then, if anything, use C++ .NET, because C# is becoming another visual basic, meaning a language with no power. Even pointers doesn't work in C# anymore!

[Sirber]

C# is a mix of C++, VB and .NET style ;)

You had pointers in VB6 before... why removing that?

[Eretria-chan]

I know what it is... I was charmed by it once, due to it being RAD (like VB) and yet had the power and syntax of c++. Ahhh, but that was my folly. Meh ;)
Anyway, the thing is that pointers do not work in C#. You can have references and stuff, but... heck, you lose all the power! All the functions in the .NET framework are pretty much high level. Plus, the .NET Framework makes using native code a pain in the ass (ahem, the framework can't convert a char* to a managed type... the other way around?).

[Sirber]

... char *? HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://alsaha.fares.net/Images0/Smily/cry.gif

So far so good. I don't even use pointers in delphi, I did not learn how to yet :). I only devellop GUIs anyway... :D

[Eretria-chan]

Ahhhh.... it sounds like you're pretty much stuck to RAD tools like VB to me. You haven't experienced the true power of a low level language like C++. Pointers are really handy.

[Sirber]

I did console C++ once at college like 5 years ago. Now my main force is Web programming and linux server management. A guy can't do everything :)

[Eretria-chan]

No, but one can choose C++ over delphi and C# :sly:
...But this is turning out to be a pointless discussion, huh? You choose what you think is best, as long as the result is all well.

[Sirber]

indeed. I wasn't going to reply coz it would have been more oil on the fire :)

I don't know which soft yet will be in C#. For sure LE stay in Delphi, PE too (Pocket Edition). Maybe RealAnime Player will be in C#.

[stax76]

Even pointers doesn't work in C# anymore!

Plus, the .NET Framework makes using native code a pain in the ass (ahem, the framework can't convert a char* to a managed type... the other way around?).

Please elaborate, do you really know what you are talking about or am I missing something?

[Eretria-chan]

Pointers do not work in C# (remember I'm talking about visual studio 2005 here). You CAN still use them, if you use unsafe code, but they are still restricted. Plus they never did work for me when I tried.

As for native code, you have to "marshall" it as microsoft calls it in order to use it. Again, I could never do this (I never knew how to do it, and well, since I didn't learn it...). But also, did you try to convert a regular C++ char* pointer to a string of managed type in any way? It fails miserably with an error from the compiler. A regular string, or non-pointer works just fine, but not using the pointer.

Also, .NET in general prevents you pretty much from manipulating the GUI from different threads that it was created on (to avoid it, you need to make sure the creating thread executes the call by using a delegate). I know this is concidered bad programming habit, but I tend to like it. Having it execute on the main thread defies the logic in it being multi-threaded. This is merely a warning, though; in release it goes away.

Oh and, last I tried all this stuff, was with beta 2 of visual studio 2005; I have not tried with the release version...

[Sirber]

Get the free express one :)

[Eretria-chan]

Ehhh, the express version does not contain MFC. MFC is critical to my programs since I always write native code (and pure win32 programming is a mess =/).
Plus, I'm still afraid of vs2005 since it was soo incredibly buggy :o

[stax76]

But also, did you try to convert a regular C++ char* pointer to a string of managed type in any way?

I've done many things in many languages, including a couple of managed languages, native C++ and C++/CLR in managed and mixed mode. With every post you introduce more misinformation, please stop it, thank you.

[EvilSin]

*** Please Remove Link to My Mirror ***

I looks like for some reason all the files i Have uploaded are no longer showing up. Seems like I am having some difficulties with the hosting. :(

Please remove the link, and I will find a better place to mirror your program that can be more reliable.

[ggab]

" I was charmed by it once, due to it being RAD (like VB) and yet had the power and syntax of c++."
" it sounds like you're pretty much stuck to RAD tools like VB to me."

what is RAD?

[Eretria-chan]

I've done many things in many languages, including a couple of managed languages, native C++ and C++/CLR in managed and mixed mode. With every post you introduce more misinformation, please stop it, thank you.
Well, speaking from my experience, that was what I could find. I am no fan on managed, so maybe you may speak more clearly on this point that I. Perhaps you could explain what I'm missing there, somewhere, sometime. I apologize if this "misinformation" offended you.

EvilSin: If you make such a video, I could mirror it, too. I suggest Siber could maybe put these links on the site to show the potential of RALE ^_^

ggab: RAD means "Rapid Application Development." Pretty much a working program in short time.

[stax76]

Well, speaking from my experience, that was what I could find. I am no fan on managed, so maybe you may speak more clearly on this point that I. Perhaps you could explain what I'm missing there, somewhere, sometime. I apologize if this "misinformation" offended you.

Fine, you should be able to learn about pointers in C# using the help, using c strings are documented very good as well. There are better explanations out there than I could give you since you did't ask something specific e.g. is this string part of a structure or a method signatur etc. If you have a specific problem I'm sure here are people having some experience trying to help you. I for instance have lot's of experience with interop.

On a specific topic:

For cross thread GUI calls there is a property in the control class that will prevent a exception get thrown, either set this property for each control or loop through all controls in the form constructor and set it for all. Note that this feature is new in .NET 2.0.

Sorry but only a bad programmer would do this, any language. Regarding delegates to do this right, C# 2.0 has new features to make this a breeze. First of all you do not any longer have to define a delegate, there is some VB AddressOf like shortcut now in C#, second there is anonymous methods now in C#.

Again, please either learn C# and .NET first or stop it writing about it. Just you didn't find out how something works in the five minutes you evaluated Visual Studio doesn't mean it cannot work. If you only want to criticize .NET at least do some research before and try to make some valid points.

[Eretria-chan]

Fine, you should be able to learn about pointers in C# using the help, using c strings are documented very good as well. There are better explanations out there than I could give you since you did't ask something specific e.g. is this string part of a structure or a method signatur etc. If you have a specific problem I'm sure here are people having some experience trying to help you. I for instance have lot's of experience with interop.
Concerning that, maybe I didn't dig enough, but it is of little consequence now.

On a specific topic:

For cross thread GUI calls there is a property in the control class that will prevent a exception get thrown, either set this property for each control or loop through all controls in the form constructor and set it for all. Note that this feature is new in .NET 2.0.
There was no mention of this in documentation other than using delegates. I was very frustrated with it and tried to finds lots of info. That was with beta 2, however.

Sorry but only a bad programmer would do this, any language. Regarding delegates to do this right, C# 2.0 has new features to make this a breeze. First of all you do not any longer have to define a delegate, there is some VB AddressOf like shortcut now in C#, second there is anonymous methods now in C#.
Ah, I know it's a bad thing to do, but I tend to like it.

Again, please either learn C# and .NET first or stop it writing about it. Just you didn't find out how something works in the five minutes you evaluated Visual Studio doesn't mean it cannot work. If you only want to criticize .NET at least do some research before and try to make some valid points.
Yes, yes, let's speak of this no more.

[Sirber]

@EvilSin

Many thanks! Page updated! :D

@C#

It's getting OT and have no link with LE. Thanks.

@all

Please update x264, now 10% faster*!

* The speed quoted may vary from one dealer to the other, location-wise. The speed quoted here are only indicative and are near to accurate and speed prevailing at the time of the actual encoder/gui/operating system will be applicable. The Standard equipments, Technical specifications and the Colours are as per the manufacturer's brouchers or sourced from the leading Codec Journals- Overdrive & Autocodec India. Indiacar does not hold any responsibilities for the accuracy of this information.

[LAIN]

Bug Report of RALE

* Problem to encode MP4 files with ASP video
* BeSweet error while encoding AAC 6ch (error have occured with MKV files)


I'm currently making some test with theses problems.

Lain

[Sirber]

So far, todo for Beta 1:

* Audio managment (input)
* Investigate besweet crash with 6 channels AAC
* Investigate x264 crash encoding from ASP in MP4 (via AVISynth).

Anything else?

[DryFire]

Would it be possible to incorporate a psp profile, that will basically make converting videos for use with the psp a one step process?

Basically it would take care of the video and audio encoding aswell as running the final .mp4 through atom changer.

[Sirber]

hum... mp4 output is not done yet. Also, I don`t have profiles for that kind of stuff.

[Sirber]

I will have to bundle mencoder too. BeSweet doesn't support AAC as input so I need to convert it first.

There is also a bug in MKV management (input). Track # for subtitle may be screwed.

[mankey]

First I have to say this is a really cool program :)

Now to my questions :D

I've been trying to convert Dattebayo Bleach 59 but everytime I try (with different Quality and sound settings) the progress seem to end right after finishing the first sound check (Maximum Gain and stuff). I think this also happend to the previous episode. No errors appear, or is there a log somewhere where I can check?

Second question is about the audio, I'm trying to get a little higher audio quality, which would you recommend? I have tried different ones with Besweet but I don't know which is the *best* but yet small in size. Something like 5 mb extra in audio size would be the limit for me. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance :) Keep up the good work!

[Sirber]

1) Try disabling normalization or convert to raw AVI (RGB, PCM) with virtualdub and retry. BeSweet is sometimes unstable.

2) Try 48kbps + PS :)

[mankey]

Didn't change anything with normalization Off, and I haven't tried converting to raw AVI before so I googled a bit and tried avi2vcd which seemed to create a 450 mb avi file from the original. But same problem with this file as the original. I also tried using Virtualdub, but I couldn't find any clear instructions so I just chose Save as AVI (with Compression set to default: Uncompressed RGB/YCbCr) which started making a new AVI with goal size of 30 gb :D I don't have that much space available so I canceled and tried another one but aborting at about 100mb just to try with RALE. And it seemed to work with my quick test I just made :)

So, did I do anything wrong or is the raw AVI (Which I think I made) supposed to be 30 gb for 24 mins? Seems a BIT to much! Or, what is the correct way to do it?

Regarding the audio: Do you know if HE-AAC with variable bitrate mode (streaming quality) would be much better quality than 48 kbps, or would it just be waste because of the original audio or something. It seemed to just increase the file size by 5 mb or so.

Thanks =)

[Sirber]

Do you get an error number or it gets back to "RealAnime LE - idle" like if nothing happened? If yes, I have a source doing that and drives me mad :devil:

VBR produce unpredictable filesize and that'S why it's not used in LE.

[mankey]

It gets back to "RealAnime LE - idle" like if nothing happened, no errors. :)

But concerning the raw AVI thing I tried to do in virtualdub, is is supposed to be that huge - 30 gb? Because it wouldn't be such a problem if I just had to first convert to raw AVI and the run it in RALE, but 30 gb is just way to much. Was my method wrong?

[Sirber]

I tryed (20GB) and did the same thing: "idle". I will run a debug session tonight. It's a LE bug (or besweet).

[mankey]

Okay. I have been googling a bit now about the Raw AVI and found some lossless codec called huffyv which seems to create the file at about 10 gb or little more. Hopefully it'll be of the same quality and work just as the "30gb file" did :)

Strange problem. Good luck in solving it!! :D

[Sirber]

huffyv is not raw (RGB, PCM), it's lossless, like PNG (vs JPEG). :)

[mankey]

So that won't really work? So the only way is to get the 30 (20?) GB file?

If so, then I hope you'll solve this in your debug session :D

[Sirber]

nope. The raw failed too. I have to find why ;)

[Sirber]

I found the error: #128 :D

More later :)

[Sirber]

C:\Documents and Settings\sirber>C:\Projets\RealAnimeLE\output\besweet\BeSweet.e
xe -core( -input "C:\Projets\RealAnimeLE\output\temp\source.avi" -output "C:\Pro
jets\RealAnimeLE\output\temp\audio.mp4" ) -azid( -s dplii -L -3db ) -ssrc( --rat
e 44100 ) -dimzon( -dllname bse_WinampAacPlusV2.dll -cbr 32 -mode 4 -v 2 ) -ota(
-g max )
BeSweet v1.5b31 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using VOBInput.dll v1.3 by DVD2SVCD (http://www.dvd2svcd.org)
Using hip.dll v1.19 by Myers Carpenter <myers@users.sf.net>
Using libVorbis.dll v1.0 ( Jul 9 2005 ) by John33 (www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00).
Using Shibatch.dll v0.25 by Naoki Shibata & DSPguru (shibatch.sourceforge.net).
Using bse_WinampAacPlusV2 by dimzon, Build Sep 14 2005, 11:26:10

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----
[00:00:00:000] | Input : C:\Projets\RealAnimeLE\output\temp\source.avi
[00:00:00:000] | Output: C:\Projets\RealAnimeLE\output\temp\audio.mp4
[00:00:00:000] | Floating-Point Process: No
[00:00:00:000] | A/V Delay found : 0msec
[00:22:53:616] | Maximum Gain Found : 2.4dB
C:\Documents and Settings\sirber>
:confused:

[Sirber]

removing "normalization" seems to work. It's a besweet bug, I can't do much about it... sorry :(

[Sirber]

@mankey

Does the "timer" goes to the end (anime length)? If yes, my tweaks might be able to bypass that error #128 by:

If (error = 128 && normalization) then
- retry whitout normalization :(
If (error = again && fileexists & filesize > 0) then
- keep that file and continue :D

[Sirber]

exitCode := dos.ExitCode;

// Error #128 tweak
if ((exitCode = 128) and (bRecode = false)) then
begin
if (setting.audio_normalize) then
begin
// Recode again whitout normalization
setting.audio_normalize := false;
bRecode := true;
exitCode := Start();
end;

// Second check
if (exitCode = 128) then
begin
if (FileExists(setting.tracks[filenumber].output)) then
begin
// check filesize
AssignFile(myFile, setting.tracks[filenumber].output);
if (FileSize(myFile) > 0) then
exitCode := 0; // forgive
CloseFile(myFile);
end;
end;
end;In testing, if it works, I will post a link for the binary.

[mankey]

What do you mean with the "timer" (anime length)?

It worked when I made a new avi with the huffyuv codec a wrote about earlier, but maybe the quality changed or something else that's not good. I used Lowest 1 pass when trying (just to get it done quick) and it didn't stop after the audio / before the audio transcode like earlier. I'll try a High 3 pass tomorrow, it takes a long while though (and to analyze the 10gb file ;)) Have to get some sleep now :p

[Sirber]

1) if the anime is 22minute, and besweet goes up to 22 minutes"
2) cool! I will still require you to try the new build :D

[Sirber]

You can get it here (http://www.mytempdir.com/278609)! :D

[Eretria-chan]

Stop using those stupid wait-to-download hosts... =) Use the mirror I got you instead; no waiting - all happy!
Btw, I don't think VBR could be that much of a trouble. I mean, why limit quality because it MIGHT just be a little too complex - or in this case, the size predictability would fail?

[mankey]

Sirber:

Yeah, it goes to the end - 24 minutes something when checking the audio. Afterwards it goes Idle (before the "transcoding").

I tried the new build and it's the same problem, but now I get an error message after checking the audio:

"Encoder error #-1073741819 (BeSweet)"

[Sirber]

@Eretria-chan

I never used VBR in my softs. Also, I tested VBR on anime and it "CBRly" cap at max VBR bitrate range.

@mankey

Ok, you don't have error #128, you have an Access Violation!!!! If you disable Normalization, does it goes to 24 minute and produce a file?

[edit]

If so, I can bypass it (the error) but it could result files with missing sound (not completly, but the end or more).

[mankey]

Sirber:

Even with (Filtering: Normalize - Disabled) I get that Encoder error, same numbers. I used the new build both of the times (Normalize On and Off).

When I have Off it does the transcoding up to 24 minutes (full) and when its done the error appears.

When I have ON it does the audio check (maximum gain) up to 24 minutes (full) and when its done the error appears.

No file is created except the audio.mp4 and source.avi in /temp/ and x264_2pass.log in /output/

[Sirber]

When I have Off it does the transcoding up to 24 minutes (full) and when its done the error appears.What is the filesize of audio.mp4? Is it complete?

[mankey]

Sirber: It's 2,77 MB and it's complete (24:14). There seems to be a little disturbance/swift cut or something at the end of the audio, but it's there in the original also.

[Sirber]

ok. I will add that error to the new "extreme error bypass super code" ;)
I will make a build tonight.

[mankey]

Cool. Can't wait to try it ^_^

[Sirber]

Now your part, feedback me!!! :D

http://www.mytempdir.com/280620

[Eretria-chan]

That's strange... the mirror to eluni.net on your homepage isn't there anymore and I did somehow find a 404 in my server logs. What's up with that? The url works and the file is indeed on the server.

[Sirber]

external linking?

[Eretria-chan]

If you mean external linking is not allowed, it is. Or what else could it mean?
http://www.detritus.qc.ca/ - link for RALE to eluni.net is gone.

[Sirber]

google page caching? :confused:

[Eretria-chan]

Eh... well, I click the link and I see the page with a black background and the following links:
http://www.ody.ca/~oasselinqc/RealAnimeLE_a4.exe
http://files.filefront.com/RealAnimeLE_a4exe/;4387391;;/fileinfo.html
http://www.detritus.qc.ca/files/realanimele/RealAnimeLE_a4.exe

[Sirber]

so it's ok?

[Eretria-chan]

Um, no. I don't see a link to eluni.net.

[Sirber]

It's supposed to have one? :confused:

[Eretria-chan]

A mirror, sheesh.

[Sirber]

You told me to remove it :(

In any case, if it's supposed to be there, what's the URL I should add? :)

[edit]

Sorry, I got confused with the other mirror :(

I'm adding it again!

Thanks!

http://www.eluni.net/downloads/RealAnimeLE/RealAnimeLE_a4.exe

[mankey]

Sirber: I just finished a High 3 pass with the new build! It worked wonderful! Cheers =)
I afterwards tried to manually create another audio track with BeSweet 0.21 (Belight) but it seems to exit just after running through the 24 minutes for the first time, so now even I understand that it has got to do with Besweet :)

Just a question regarding the different qualities; Will there be a lot of difference between High and Extreme? (Insane would probably take a couple of months with this computer) At the moment I'm running High and it takes about 7 hours.

[Sirber]

Extreme uses RDO for bframes. Not sure about quality but it's much more slower.

[Eretria-chan]

You told me to remove it :(

In any case, if it's supposed to be there, what's the URL I should add? :)

[edit]

Sorry, I got confused with the other mirror :(

I'm adding it again!

Thanks!

http://www.eluni.net/downloads/RealAnimeLE/RealAnimeLE_a4.exe
Hehe, you little weirdo ;)
I'm hoping to test a new version where hopefully the besweet bug is fixed :)

[Sirber]

I can't fix besweet bugs, but I can make realanime live with them. I will release Beta 1 tomorrow with more sweet features, like spinning 3D logo while encoding! ;)

[EvilSin]

Looking forward to the new version. Woot! Spinning Graphics while Encoding =)

Have you been able to see to my request? (Just showing filenames with no directories). Its not *THAT* important, it would just make my life a little easier.

Either way I wll be looking forward to the new version and will upload it and send you a link to it when its online with my mirror.

[Sirber]

It will be for the final version (at worst), since it's "cosmetic" and require many code change. But, not much is to be done on LE since it's pretty cool and sexy :D, so final release is very very near :).

[Sirber]

I fixed the AAC handling problem (as input). Once my tests are done, I will release Beta 1.

[Kayser]

Great Sirber! I've been waiting anxiously for that ^__^. Thank you for your hard work!

[ggab]

indeed, thank you!

see u next time :)

[hitbit]

Sirber, can you please add a constant quality (crf) option?

[Sirber]

hum....

I think I can add a new "Mode:" and swap the text on "Bitrate:" for "Quant:" and make it 1 pass...

[Kayser]

Hi everyone! I've been having a lot of trouble with RALE lately. Maybe it's just being paranoid, but I started noticing this after replacing the last RealAnimeLE.exe you posted.
The problem is that I get MKVmerge errors due to 2kb audio track nearly always. I tested with some files and it's like a random thing. For example: With Aria the Animation c3 it produced an audio file after stoping and starting a few times (4 if i'm not mistaken :P, deleting the 2kb audio every time). This problem is not limited to Aria but to nearly everything I encode at random. The audio encoding in those cases doesn't appear to start, instead the 2kb file is created and the video encoding starts. I don't think it's a matter of sources since the same one encoded perfectly fine with the same settings and when I get the MKVmerge error I keep the video track and encode the file again to get the audio track (with RALE, not directly with BeSweet)
Could it be misconfiguration on my side?

[Sirber]

If you recode the same source few times, does it work?

If you get back on a4, does it always work?

[Kayser]

If you recode the same source few times, does it work?

Yes, it does

If you get back on a4, does it always work?

Good question :P, I'll try switching back to base a4 and try a few times with the same sources as this ones. I'll tell you the results later

EDIT: I checked the audio phase with 15 different videos chapters from different animes in a4 and I can say I was indeed being paranoid, the error is in a4 as well... When the temp folder is empty it encodes just fine but when I start encoding and stop in the middle then start again, sometimes, the old audio.mp4 (wich was of X size, depending where i stopped) is replaced with one of 2kb and it starts the video encoding without trying to encode the audio track. That happens as well when I batch encode, sometimes I get the 2kb audio.mp4 but always when there were old files in the temp folder. I hope that helped ^^;;.

[Sirber]

ok.

The only code that changed between a4 and the posted binaries is "besweet error skipping A.I." :D

[Sirber]

I had some thoughts about LE:

* Reduce profiles to "Low, Medium, High"
Where low will be current "Medium", medium the current "High" and high a mix of the current "Extreme" and "Insane!!!".

* Build RealAnime 4 in LE sources
... adding RV10, xvid, Theora and Vorbis

Both LE and RA4 will be released (in separate downloads).

What do you think?

[ggab]

great idea :)

cause with non LE versions u can do more things ;)

[Sirber]

RA4 will be only LE with more codecs. UI will stay the same, only a dropdown menu will be added for codecs.

[Sirber]

Added:
* MP3 input support
* AAC input support
* AC3 input support
* WAV input support

Updated:
* Profiles (Low("Medium in a4"), Medium ("High in a4"), High ("Extreme in a4"))

Fixed:
* AAC decoding
* BeSweet crashes (LE will workaround them)

Removed:
* Audio normalization (Turned on unless BeSweet crash)
* Fast First Pass (Turned on by default)

http://www.detritus.qc.ca

[Sirber]

ToDo:

* Constant Quality mode
* [add your feature here]

:D

[LAIN]

I'v been experiencing problems with besweet encoding (audio encoding part in RALE), while file were encoded (32 kbps Parametric Stereo + normalisation) it were taking me more than ~45 minutes to encode files (to much long)

I'v test the same command line in a dos shell and the encode were made in ~10 sec max and test it with belight with the same result.


I'd like to know if anyone else experience the same problem. I dont know if it is related to intel HT technology or any intel p4 processors.



LAIN

[Eretria-chan]

ToDo:

* Constant Quality mode
* [add your feature here]

:D
Zones maybe...
Or something that allows even more compression for good quality...
The previous attempt ended in disaster as the movie encoded was too blocky :(
Must try another one to see if it's a difficult movie to compress...

Still only alpha 4 at http://www.eluni.net/downloads/RealAnimeLE/