HC encoder, release 016

[hank315]

Thanks for the feedback, most issues are solved now:
- hangs while running minimized
- wrong GOP size for some fixed GOPs
- artifacts at the right side of some frames

The artifacts were caused because motion vectors could point out of the frame by half a pixel, some decoders don't like that...

Still one issue left, using Avisynth DirectShowSource with the WMV decoder sometimes won't read the stream correct during the second pass, it can skip frames or even jump back.

HC016 latest release at: http://hcencoder.bitburners.com/

[Amnon82]

It is a great work till now. When I find time I'll play a little with Your new version ;) Keep up the good work.

Mirror for HC016TR2_16-09-2005 (http://amnon82.cybton.com/files/HCbatch_016_testrelease2_16-09-2005.zip)

:thanks:

P.S.

If You need help with the prediction mode, tell me ;)

Take a look at AutoCQ (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89122)

Some news about HC016.

I wanted to release it also with an updated GUI version but the old GUI isn't flexible enough,
it's too big, just can't fit the new buttons in it anymore (and it's ugly also :))
So there will be a completely new GUI but that will take some time to finish...

But thanks to all comments/feedback the HC016batch version is now final:

http://hank315.dyndns.org/HCbatch_016.zip

- fixes the playback on some strict players (Pioneer)
- pulldown issue is fixed, streams can be pulldowned for PAL and NTSC GOP lengths
- updated 1 pass CQ_MAXBITRATE run, should result in better prediction
- autoq2 matrix replaced with avamat6 and avamat7 (both by Amnon82)

Some of this is already in the latest test releases but not all.
For those who use DBD-RB with HC, just replace and rename the exe file with this one.

[ljpp]

Another mirror (http://www.bitburners.com/remository/Download/Video_Codecs_and_Encoders/HC_Encoder_(HCEnc)_v0.16TR2/)

[Mr. Monte]

I take it jdobbs will put this into his RC6b downloads as of now, or will he wait for RC7 or 1.1?

[Boulder]

I've had no problems with the new test release:)

One small feature request for 016 though: would it be possible to set the path for the database file or possibly create it in the same directory as the encoded video? At the moment I've got all my video tools on a partition which doesn't have much free space left (only about 500MB), and sometimes the dbs file gets so large that the encoding doesn't proceed to the end of a long video.

[TheCreamCrackerBoy]

Is there a GUI version, like in HC 0.15?

Thank you,

TheCreamCrackerBoy

[Boulder]

I'm sure a GUI version will be available as soon as the official 016 is released. Besides, the commandline version isn't hard to use.

[Marius-the-Mad]

Hank, could you check whether HC writes correct information about colour matrix used ? I mentioned that problem to you and it's unclear whether the culprit lies within DGIndex' or HC's code. :confused:

<edit> Solved! Thank you very much for your assistance, Hank! :)

[hank315]

Is there a GUI version, like in HC 0.15?No, not yet.
But if this batch version runs pretty stable I will create a GUI version.
All development I do is always done on the batch version, it's faster for testing purposes, also it's easier to maintain because it needs less windows stuff.

[Prodater64]

@hank315: How the state of giving back to the stream the bitrate cutted by cq_maxbitrate option?

[rhayman]

Thanks for this release, hcbatch 15_a was crashing in the latest version of dvdrebuilder but this one works fine.

[feedback]

Thanks for this release, hcbatch 15_a was crashing in the latest version of dvdrebuilder but this one works fine.
I've been using HCbatch 15_A with DVD Rebuilder Pro. with no problem myself. But I always look forward to Hank315's latest and greatest version of his HC encoder.

Regards,:)

[Sounddude]

Is the GUI version ready yet?

[Sunhillow]

Is the GUI version ready yet?

If hank did not announce it, it isn't :rolleyes:

[DD51]

Hank,

Just FYI...

I've backed up a few Discs so far:
All of Season 1 of "LOST"
All of Season 2 and 3 of "24"
5 movies of "Movie only"

I have had absolutley "NO PROBLEMS" whatsoever yet
except that the final size are "ALL" 4.31Gigs!
Just letting you know my experience so far with test release 2.

Regards,

[writersblock29]

@DD51

You mean, using HC with DVD Rebuilder? 4.31 is Rebuilder's default target setting, so it's not HC's fault. If using Rebuilder isn't what you meant, sorry 'bout that! :)

[DD51]

@DD51

You mean, using HC with DVD Rebuilder? 4.31 is Rebuilder's default target setting, so it's not HC's fault. If using Rebuilder isn't what you meant, sorry 'bout that! :)

Correct...I'm using HC with Rebuilder. 4.31 is good for me...I thought it was 4.33 the default. Thanks for setting me straight.
I love HC!

Thanks Hank for all your hard work :thanks:

[writersblock29]

@DD51

Sure thing! Actually, Rebuilder's set for 4.31GB for safety. Certain projects will tend to run over that boundary + or - a few MBs. CCE will sometimes oversize a bit, too. That's probably where you've been seeing a few 4.33GB filesizes from. Jdobbs just wanted a safety net to keep people from having to totally re-encode because of oversizing. You can manually tweak this so that you're using more of the blank disk... but doing so only adds a very marginal amount of bitrate to your project and the difference isn't noticable just by watching it.

HC's becoming more impressive with each release. It's making me wish I'd have saved my money when I decided to buy CCE a few years back. Where where you then, Hank? ;)

[Pasqui]

Hi hank315,
as test release 2 seems to work fine, when do you expect to release final version ?
Regards,

[dragongodz]

when do you expect to release final version ?
it will be ready when its ready. hank315 has a lot going on in real life at the moment, seems we all do this time of year( :D ) plus there are all sorts of advanced things he is looking at for HC. since there is no way to be exact it is often better to not put a release date and then have people asking where is it.

[Boulder]

My last encode ended up with buffer underflow warnings in DVD Maestro.

Here's the last log entries:

intra matrix used
8 16 19 22 26 27 29 34
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 37
19 22 26 27 29 34 34 38
22 22 26 27 29 34 37 40
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 58
26 27 29 34 38 46 56 69
27 29 35 38 46 56 69 83

non-intra matrix used
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
19 20 21 22 23 24 26 27
20 21 22 23 25 26 27 28
21 22 23 24 26 27 28 30
22 23 24 26 27 28 30 31
23 24 25 27 28 30 31 33

nr. of gops: 10053
nr. of frames: 139500
nr. of I-frames: 10053
nr. of P-frames: 36609
nr. of B-frames: 92838
average quant (non linear): 4.612
VBV underflows detected: 6
VBV underflows fixed: 6
minimum bitrate: 193
maximum bitrate: 8492
average bitrate: 3364

I used a 256kbps audio track plus one subtitle track so the max bitrate definitely shouldn't have been exceeded.

[hank315]

@Boulder
Strange, the log values show an easy encode with just a few VBV fixes and a max. bitrate which isn't that high.
Have you also tried to author it with Muxman or IfoEdit?
How does it look when the m2v is loaded into BitrateViewer or MPEG Stream Eye?

[Boulder]

@Boulder
Strange, the log values show an easy encode with just a few VBV fixes and a max. bitrate which isn't that high.
Have you also tried to author it with Muxman or IfoEdit?
How does it look when the m2v is loaded into BitrateViewer or MPEG Stream Eye?
I'll try to author it with those programs as soon as time permits. BV showed max bitrate at ~8000kbps so the value in the log should be true.

This is the first time I've had such warnings and I've used 9000 as the maximum. Do you know any program that could tell me at what frame/GOP the underflows occur? I could check it on my picky Pioneer if it has a real effect.

[Mug Funky]

My last encode ended up with buffer underflow warnings in DVD Maestro.

were these green warnings or red warnings (well, a red warning would have stopped the compile dead...)?

green warnings from spruce are pretty safe to ignore - they don't translate to playback problems in my experience, though that fact is taken on faith because only the pedants like us will complain about occasionally stuttery playback... most people blame their equipment and forget about it (samsung owners are justified here...)

i suspect spruce gives a green bitrate warning when the bitrate exceeds the flagged max bitrate, and gives a red warning when the bitrate exceeds the 10.02 mbps limit of DVD. i've not tried this, but it's possible that if you were to change the max bitrate set in the m2v, the warning would go away.

also beware that BV free version reports too-low bitrates. you have to multiply them by 1.024 i believe.

[Boulder]

hank already found the problem with a little help from MuxMan's log file and a little util. It's not about exceeding the max bitrate, it's just a rare case of a couple of a bit too large frames not arriving on time. He said it'll be fixed in the next release.

I haven't tried whether my player will stutter at that point but it would have been a minor issue anyway.

[Moitah]

I am trying to frameserve from VirtualDub to AviSynth to encode with HC. The AVI loaded in VirtualDub is NTSC DV so it's 720x480 29.97fps. AviSynth script looks like this:

AVISource("enc.vdr")
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)

It works fine in HC 0.15A, but with the 0.16 test release it just exits as soon as I start it (no error message displayed, or if there is it exits so fast I can't see it). All settings were the same for both versions because I loaded them from the same INI. 0.16 works fine for normal AviSynth scripts where I'm not reading from a VirtualDub frameserver. Any ideas?

[hank315]

Some remarks here so the other thread will not be hijacked completely ;)
@Carpo & Pasqui
I think it's perfectly safe to use the latest HC016, IMHO it's the most stable version until now.
It's just called a test version to see if the crashes which some people experience with HC015 are now gone.
There will be an "official" release of it when it's finished, still working on 1 pass VBR.
Before the official release there will be another test version which can do 1 pass VBR.

Known bugs for HC016 (and all previous versions):
- GOP/VOBU/pulldown issue reported by Xeno86, will be solved in the next release
- VBV underflow reported by Boulder, working on that now

@Moitah
I never tested this but yes I can replicate it.
HC015 finishes normal, HC016 just disappears immediate, frameserver reports 1 frame served :confused:
Debugging time again...

[dragongodz]

still working on 1 pass VBR.
your as bad as Nic in keeping things for a surprise. ;)

[Carpo]

Known bugs for HC016 (and all previous versions):
- GOP/VOBU/pulldown issue reported by Xeno86, will be solved in the next release
- VBV underflow reported by Boulder, working on that now


@Hank315

thats why i never used it in the test (of course i didnt know of those issues) but
it was a case of just in case - and i never meant to knock your encoder as its a damn fine piece of kit to have - since my little test i been using HC15 non stop :D

[Boulder]

It appears that HC doesn't like ffdshow's mjpeg decoding.

I've got a TV capture, captured with ffdshow mjpeg. I open it via AVISource so the infamous DirectShowSource can't be the culprit. When the script is opened, HC quits almost immediately leaving a zero byte length m2v file behind.

EDIT: using DirectShowSource it works :confused:

[Sagittaire]

Possible to implement adaptative ratio for bframe ... ???

[LauriM]

Hank315, thank you for an excellent encoder!

I'm happy to report that the current testrelease works with Wine in Linux, hits the specified average and peak bitrates and does it with excellent image quality and speed. :cool: My Pioneer standalone (which is quite strict about standard compliance) has no problems with the resulting bitstream.

:thanks:

[hank315]

Possible to implement adaptative ratio for bframe ... ???Do you mean a manual setting for it?
Now the ratio for I,P,B is already done automatical depending on the bitrate.

@LauriM
Thanks...

[Sagittaire]

Do you mean a manual setting for it?
Now the ratio for I,P,B is already done automatical depending on the bitrate.
Thanks...

No ... as you know MPEG2 use no adaptative bframe ... always IBBPBBP for low or high motion. MPEG4 use adaptative bframe and generaly only Bframe in low motion with high ratio/offset because with exactly same size I(q3)b(q5)b(q5)p(q3) will be visually better than I(q4)b(q4)b(q4)p(q4). It's possible to use constant ratio/offset for MPEG2 but ratio/offset for high motion is bad in high motion. Use constant ratio/offset for MPEG4 is possible because bframe are adaptative but it's a problem with no adaptative bframe like for MPEG2 MP@ML DVD compliant stream.

Why not adaptative ratio for bframe and for example
I(q4)b(q4)b(q4)p(q4) in high motion part -> low ratio for high motion
I(q4)b(q6)b(q6)p(q4) in low motion part -> high ratio for low motion

You use low quant variability and for example
I(q4)b(q4)b(q4)p(q4) in high motion part -> low ratio for high motion
I(q3)b(q4)b(q4)p(q3) in low motion part -> high ratio for low motion

with that PSNR and visual quality could be very better ... ???

[FredThompson]

@hank315,

I've got some high-motion interlaced source which doesn't play well with any encoder but ProCoder. All other encoders yield blocky output. HC has the least blockiness. ProCoder shows no blocks. Would you be interested in some of this source? I could send you a minute or so of the original GOPs for testing along with Procoder and HC conversions.

My motivation? I want to switch to only using HC and provide you whatever support I can for your baby to be more capable.

[hank315]

Would you be interested in some of this source?Yes, just PM'ed you about it.

[hank315]

@Sagittaire
as you know MPEG2 use no adaptative bframe ...always IBBPBBP for low or high motionHC uses different GOP schemes for low/high motion (autogop option):
high motion: IBPBPBPB...
normal motion: IBBPBBPBB...
(very) low motion: IBBBPBBBPBBB...

In your blind test I noticed that for the HC encoding a fixed GOP was used.
A variable GOP scheme is DVD compliant, also Mencoder and CCE do it.
Mencoder uses very short GOPs on fades, CCE uses 2 or more consecutive P frames in low action scenes.

For HC the quant variability ATM is more based on bitrate than low/high motion, but maybe some tweaks with respect to motion could raise quality.

with that PSNR and visual quality could be very better ... ???Will test it to see if it does, if so it will be in the next release.

[dragongodz]

(very) low motion: IBBBPBBBPBBB...
this one is not dvd compliant though. maximum distance between reference frames is 3 for dvd ie. IBBPBBP
from http://www.mpeg2.de/doc/dvd/book_b/video.htm
MPEG-2 MP@ML (Main Profile @ Main Level) has no restriction to the number of consequitvely coded B frames. In DVD, it is limited to no more than two B frames (M<=3, the reference frame distance).

FredThompson - if you are making that sample available for download by hank315 then can you let me know where to get it aswell ? as i would like to test and see what it does with QuEnc.

[hank315]

@dragongodz
You're right, it's allowed for MPEG, not for DVD.
Will be fixed in the final HC016.

[Sagittaire]

adaptative Bframe number is compliant with DVD MP@ML ... ???

IPPPBPBBPBBPPP for example ... ???

In this case quality with Mencoder could be very better ... lol

FredThompson - if you are making that sample available for download by hank315 then can you let me know where to get it aswell ? as i would like to test and see what it does with QuEnc.

me too with mencoder ... ;)

[FredThompson]

FredThompson - if you are making that sample available for download by hank315 then can you let me know where to get it aswell ? as i would like to test and see what it does with QuEnc.Yes. I just sent a message to hank315 that I can't get to it until Friday due to a packed business schedule. I'll make it openly available. It's probably a good stress test for encoders.

[hank315]

@Sagittaire
adaptative Bframe number is compliant with DVD MP@ML ... ???
IPPPBPBBPBBPPP for example ... ???I think everybody agrees that CCE generates DVD compliant streams.
3 consecutive GOPs from the CCE encoding (from your blind test) look like:
IBPBPBPBPBPBPB-IBBPPBPBPBBPBB-IBBPBBPBBPPPBB

That doesn't look like the (default) IBBPBBPBBPBB... scheme you probably set in CCE :)

[hank315]

Some news about HC016.

I wanted to release it also with an updated GUI version but the old GUI isn't flexible enough,
it's too big, just can't fit the new buttons in it anymore (and it's ugly also :))
So there will be a completely new GUI but that will take some time to finish...

But thanks to all comments/feedback the HC016batch version is now final:

http://hank315.dyndns.org/HCbatch_016.zip

- fixes the playback on some strict players (Pioneer)
- pulldown issue is fixed, streams can be pulldowned for PAL and NTSC GOP lengths
- updated 1 pass CQ_MAXBITRATE run, should result in better prediction
- autoq2 matrix replaced with avamat6 and avamat7 (both by Amnon82)

Some of this is already in the latest test releases but not all.
For those who use DBD-RB with HC, just replace and rename the exe file with this one.

[bourtzovlakas]

:thanks:

[Lo_RaT_PeNaT]

many thank you for your work

[DK]

good news!

[Oldeman]

Great..... :o :o :o
I love HC... Thanks thanks thanks.... Hank315 :thanks: .

[kumi]

Thank you so much hank315 :)

[hartford]

Thankyou hank315.

I've used this on low bitrate MPEG2's and it is much better than CCE 2.50.

Can't say more than thankyou!

[buzzqw]

a big thanks isn't enought !

BHH

[raquete]

Thankyou hank315.

I've used this on low bitrate MPEG2's and it is much better than CCE 2.50.
yes, i can trust. i saw cool screenshots in digital-digest a few minutes.
(the link to the forum seems down,sorry)

Thank you hank315!


[edit] the link is working now: Screenshots - HC 016 FINAL (impressive!) (http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=57569)

[ginoboy]

@hank315

WOW! Thank you, man! :cool: :thanks:

Cya!!

[zsb]

I must add my thank yous here also. I had a difficult time with certain anime sources. CCE produced a whole GOP of huge blocks in a particular vertical pan scene and lesser blocks in many other pans. HC does not seem to have any problems with these scenes :) Settings for bitrate min/ave/max is 500/2060/2450. Other settings were more or less default. In conclusion (pointed by some others already), for lower bitrates HC beats CCE easily.

EDIT:
I have another weird pan scene where 15A gives clearly better results than 16 (still major blocking, but better overall). If anyone's interested I'll put the m2v's etc up somewhere (around 1,8MB each).

[doxville]

It appears that HC doesn't like ffdshow's mjpeg decoding.

I've got a TV capture, captured with ffdshow mjpeg. I open it via AVISource so the infamous DirectShowSource can't be the culprit. When the script is opened, HC quits almost immediately leaving a zero byte length m2v file behind.

EDIT: using DirectShowSource it works :confused:
I just wanted to ask, if there is some kind of bugfix planned to the above problem, because I found out that I have the same crash with captures in ffdshows MJPEG. Using DirectshowSource instead of AviSource helps to encode anyway, but funny enough, with HCbatch_015 it is possible to open the capture-file via AviSource. It would be nice, if there was a solution to this (maybe in the next release... ;))...

Once more a BIG THANX for this great encoder, it is really my favourite! Keep up the good work!

[Revgen]

@Hank315

Thanks for the new version.

However, there is one problem that I ecountered.

I encoded my file at 2300KBPS with AVAMAT7 and it turned out looking great. But it also turned out slightly undersized. So I ran it through Bitrateviewer and it reported that the file was 2153KBPS. Thats about a 7% decrease in quality.

Could this be the fault of AVAMAT7? If so, what would be a better matrix to use.

Here are my settings:

HC16 -i mysource -o myvideo -b 2300 maxbitrate 9000 -profile best -aspectratio 4:3 -scene -nointerlace -matrix avamat7

The source is about 600-700 MB's, so I could upload it to www.yousendit.com and e-mail the link to you. PM your address if your interested.

Thanks.

EDIT
My Source is also B&W. Could the lack of chroma affect how HCEnc calculates bitrate?

[pacohaas]

Some news about HC016.
- updated 1 pass CQ_MAXBITRATE run, should result in better prediction

I've been testing HC, specifically interested in using the CQ mode to create constant quality SVCD encodes. The obvious shortcoming here is that with a max bitrate, CQ mode will tend to scale down the more difficult frames, while not scaling the easier low motion frames. I'd be down with a 2-pass CQ mode where Q stood for quality rather than Quantizer and all the quantizers appropriately scaled based on first pass info to achieve constant quality.

If you're up for it, I'm up for test encoding and reporting.

[colinb]

I have just tried the final HC016 and one of my encodings which is about 5 mins playing time in length has 9 VBV underflows in the log file.

What is a VBV underflow and should I be concerned about it?

I'm using AVAMAT6 matrix, max bitrate of 8000 and average bitrate of 4700.

Since posting the above, I've also got another approx 5 min encoding with the same settings except average bitrate is set to 4900 and there are 27 VBV underflows.

[pacohaas]

What is a VBV underflow and should I be concerned about it?
I was kinda wondering the same thing myself, here (http://www.bretl.com/mpeghtml/VBV.HTM)'s what a 20 second google found me. Mine always says zero, so i assume this has something to do with higher DVD bitrates since i'm only doing SVCD's.

[Fishman0919]

WOW Hank.... nice job :cool:

[dragongodz]

ok let me see if i can explain it really simply.

imagine a bucket with a hole in the bottom, this is the buffer. now imagine you have a lot of different size glasses filled with water, these are the video frames. now as you empty 1 glass at a time in to the bucket so much runs out the hole. the bucket wil be filled to different amount at different times because the glasses of water are different sizes. now if too many really big glasses are poured in before enough water drains from the hole water will run over the sides and you lose that water.this is a buffer underflow. its when the outflow of the buffer is under the amount needed to handle the amount of data being fed to it. a buffer overflow is of course the opposite. that is when the bucket gets empty and is waiting for a glass of water to be poured in.

what does a decoder do in these situations ? it can wait until you pour that glass if you dont want lose any or discard it as too big etc for an underflow. thats up to how the decoder was done. either way you lose totally smooth playback.

i hope i made that simple enough. :D

the only time you need to worry with HC is if it doesnt or can not fix an underflow. so if you see it say x amount of underflows fixed then you dont really need to worry it.

i assume this has something to do with higher DVD bitrates since i'm only doing SVCD's.
no its applicable for SVCD aswell.

[rpboy]

I encoded my file at 2300KBPS with AVAMAT7 and it turned out looking great. But it also turned out slightly undersized. So I ran it through Bitrateviewer and it reported that the file was 2153KBPS. Thats about a 7% decrease in quality.

Could this be the fault of AVAMAT7? If so, what would be a better matrix to use.

EDIT
My Source is also B&W. Could the lack of chroma affect how HCEnc calculates bitrate?
I also just a considerably undersized result as well.

I had processed a DVD with DVD-Rebuilder using the new 0.16 release. It came out perfect at 4.37 GB. But I wasn't happy with the quality of the output (It was like 5 hours of video, so I wasn't expecting miracles.) so I decided to try again, removing some of the video. So I deleted the contents of the working folder, and then changing nothing, I ran the Prepare phase again. I then used Preview/Edit feature to blank out some of the video. It ended up blanking out about 950MB. I saved my changes and let it go through overnight.

This morning I took a look at the output and it was 4.16 GB.

I also was using the AVAMAT7 matrix (well, I was using the AUTO-Q2 matrix that Matrix Editor had placed in my Matrix folder). My source was color, though, not black and white. I was also using HC running in Best mode.

Compared to CCE, I find that HC undersizes a little if I run the exact same DVD through DVD-Rebuilder, but I've never seen such a difference like the one I saw with this DVD.

[FredThompson]

You varied 2 parts of the same process.

Try it again using PGCEdit and VobBlanker to create a stable source then run again so the only variable is the new HC.

hank315 didn't write DVD-FB and jdobbs didn't write HC.

[rpboy]

You varied 2 parts of the same process.

Try it again using PGCEdit and VobBlanker to create a stable source then run again so the only variable is the new HC.
I didn't vary 2 parts of the same process.

First time was the entire disc, with HC 0.16. Second time was with several chapters blanked out by DVD-RB, with HC 0.16.

Everything was the same other than some of the video had been blanked out by DVD-RB.

hank315 didn't write DVD-FB and jdobbs didn't write HC.
So instead, you'd like me to throw in two other programs to the mix, that neither hank315 or jdobbs wrote?

[hank315]

@Revgen
Yes, I'm interested, will PM you.

@pacohaas
About constant quality, that's a hard one, in fact it doesn't really exist in MPEG encoding.
If an encoder claims it can encode with constant quality I've always wondered how they do that because quality isn't defined and hard to measure.

taken from the ISO MPEG document:
For constant bitrate (CBR) coding, the number of transmitted bits per unit time is constant on the channel.
Since the encoder output rate generally varies depending on the picture content,
it shall regulate the rate constant by buffering etc.
In CBR, picture quality may vary depending on its content.
The other mode is the variable bitrate (VBR) coding, in which case the number of transmitted bits per unit
time may vary on the channel under some constriction.
VBR is meant to provide constant quality coding. So I think a normal 2 pass (VBR) comes as close as possible to achieve constant quality.
Of course Constant Quantization also is VBR but is has some restrictions, it can raise bitrate very high so it must be limited to
the maximum bitrate but at low bitrate the Constant Quant may be too low.
Maybe in future versions there will be a setting for minimum bitrate, now that's set automatically to prevent bad results, if it's set too low results are pretty horrible...

@colinb
Dragongodz story explains the VBV stuff very well :)
With average bitrates 4700-4900 I think it's better to use another matrix like MPEG or QLB.

@rpboy
Just did a test with the avamat7 matrix using different bitrates (2000, 4000 and 6000) on a 3000 frame clip,
they all hit the target pretty accurate: 2000,4000 and 5982.
When I use DVD-RB I'm running a special version of HC which logs the bitrates for all segments to check the achieved bitrates,
in almost every case they match the values in the ecl file.
You could check the segments in the work folder using BRV or MPEG Stream Eye and compare the values set in the ecl file...

[FredThompson]

@rpboy, oops. I thought you'd used HC 15 for the whole disc then HC16 with different source. Sorry for the confusion.

[dragongodz]

With average bitrates 4700-4900 I think it's better to use another matrix like MPEG or QLB.
QLB was really designed for bitrates lower than that, unless its a VERY difficult source. MPEG martrix should be ok for that range IMHO.

rpboy - check the undersized encode to see what sort of quants you are getting. also try a different matrix and see if it also produces the same problem.

[Revgen]

@Revgen
Yes, I'm interested, will PM you.


I'm now uploading the source to yousendit's servers. It should take about 3-4 hrs. on my 512 kbps upload connection.

And yes they do handle files up to 1 GB. But they delete the file after it's been on the servers for 7 days and they set a certain limit on how many times the file can be downloaded. It's not the ideal solution for commercial use, but it's great for sending huge files for personal purposes such as what I'm doing.

EDIT

File has been uploaded. It took me 2 attempts to do it. :angry: The first attempt b0rked for some reason.

[colinb]

Thanks for the explanation.

now if too many really big glasses are poured in before enough water drains from the hole water will run over the sides and you lose that water.this is a buffer underflow. its when the outflow of the buffer is under the amount needed to handle the amount of data being fed to it. a buffer overflow is of course the opposite. that is when the bucket gets empty and is waiting for a glass of water to be poured in.

But isn't the terminology the wrong way round? My uderstanding of a "Buffer OVERflow" is that the buffer (or the bucket) is being fed with more data (from the glasses) than is being extracted (drains through the hole). E.g. one of the definitions I've found says "A buffer overflow will happen when you are trying to add too many bytes to a buffer, and underflow will happen when you are trying to read too many bytes from a buffer."

Also, if the encoder is deciding how much to compress each frame to keep to an average bitrate then surely avoiding a buffer over or underflow is a fundamental function of the encoder? If the buffer is emptying too quickly then surely the compression should be reduced and vice versa. So why is there a need to count under flows at all if the encoder's operation ensures that they should never happen?

(This if of course based on my poor knowledge of MPEG encoding).

[dragongodz]

the definitions I've found says "A buffer overflow will happen when you are trying to add too many bytes to a buffer, and underflow will happen when you are trying to read too many bytes from a buffer."
yes....i guess my explanation was too simple. :(

maybe this will help
from http://swpat.ffii.org/pikta/txt/ep/0742/674/
In the VBR mode, overflow can be avoided by only reading data from the
digital storage medium when the buffer can accept new data. In the VBR
mode, underflow is still possible and results from too much rather
than too little, data being used to represent video frames. When too
much data represents a frame, the video decoder cannot perform all the
necessary decoding operations in 1/30th of a second. An error results
because a frame needs to be displayed before it has been totally
decoded.
and from http://neuron2.net/library/mpeg1/MPGVIDEO.DOC
A fixed-rate channel is assumed to put bits at a constant rate into the Input Buffer. At regular intervals, set by the picture rate, the Picture Decoder instantaneously removes all the bits for the next picture from the Input Buffer. If there are too few bits in the Input Buffer, i.e. all the bits for the next picture have not been received, then the Input Buffer underflows and there is an underflow error. If, during the time between picture starts, the capacity of the Input Buffer is exceeded, then there is an overflow error.

why would the next picture not be entirely in the buffer ? because its too big and wont fit or can not be read and decoded at the required rate. thus the big glasses comparison. just think of underflows as caused by too big frames and overflows caused by too small frames unless you really want to learn all the ins and outs of both encoding and decoding, thats easiest.

Also, if the encoder is deciding how much to compress each frame to keep to an average bitrate then surely avoiding a buffer over or underflow is a fundamental function of the encoder? If the buffer is emptying too quickly then surely the compression should be reduced and vice versa. So why is there a need to count under flows at all if the encoder's operation ensures that they should never happen?
of course it is the encoders job to do these things. i have already suggested to hank315 that he should remove that information from the gui since people only need to know if the encoder fails to fix these and will just cause confusion with people wanting to know what it means. ;)

[Amnon82]

Great release hank ;)

[gilligan2]

I currently use DVD Rebuilder (the newest Pro version) I notice that everytime i encode it uses the mpeg standard matrix. How do i use and get the AVAMAT7 matrix or other matrices and use them or can't this be done with DVD-Rebuilder?

Thanks,

g:)

[Amnon82]

It is simple:

-------------------------------
HC.ini template
These commands are required
Use full pathnames and just use the bitrate you want
-------------------------------
*infile c:\...\file.avs
*outfile c:\...\file.m2v
*bitrate 550
*maxbitrate 850
-------------------------------
Next commands are optional,
putting a space for it disables a command
Not all commands are shown here,
see the manual for a complete list and default values
-------------------------------
*logfile c:\...\file.log
*matrix AVAMAT7
*profile best
*aspect 4:3
*bias 30
*gop 12 2
*tff
*cq 4.0
*cq_maxbitrate 3.8
*dc_prec 10

AVAMAT7 is *matrix AVAMAT7, AVAMAT6 is *matrix AVAMAT6
The rest is like written in the HC015.Help.pdf. Only my matrices got changed.

@hank: I did a good 1CD encode with the INI I posted in this post. It has a good CSVCD potencial. I'll use it now for my new 1CD standard (a tool for it will come soon;)).

Maybe you can add a option to change the framerate
*framerate 25 (24,23.97,29.97,30) or
*fps 25 (24,23.97,29.97,30)

BTW: HCEnc is the fastest encoder in the resolution of 352x288 I've ever seen. AVG Frames on my AMD 64 3500+ machine are: 82 -102 (depends on the actual picture).

[DK]

if your question is where to load matrices in rb, then this might help:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4521/rbmatrix9ng.png

if, however, you havent got avamat/autoq then take a look at RME/rebuilder's matrix editor

[gilligan2]

Yes,this is more what i'm looking for but where do i get all the Matrices you have listed ? I only have the 5 original ones available to me.

And thanks to both of you for your help !!

TIA.

g:)

[DK]

like i said: download RME and consult the readme/help

rme will let you create/edit matrices for use within rebuilder


+++++++++++++

http://www.dvdrebuilder.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=24

[danpos]

@DK

OT: Nice skin !! :eek: I did like it. :) E-OT

Cheers,

[DK]

you DID?

why not anylonger?
^_~


and i must confess i still havent managed to update the skin in the setup department :-(

[gilligan2]

like i said: download RME and consult the readme/help

rme will let you create/edit matrices for use within rebuilder


+++++++++++++

http://www.dvdrebuilder.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=24



Thanks again !!


g:)

[rpboy]

rpboy - check the undersized encode to see what sort of quants you are getting. also try a different matrix and see if it also produces the same problem.
Well, I have no idea what the "quants" are so I can't provide any reasonable information there, but I did try an encode with a different matrix (I used QLB) and it undersized the same.

I am going to try an encode with CCE tonight and see if that undersizes.

[dragongodz]

Well, I have no idea what the "quants" are so I can't provide any reasonable information there
you would load a vob in to something like bitrate viewer and see what the Q(for quant) values are.

[alfixdvd]

While HC016 is encoding sometimes I see at GOP:

1 - Closed

Is this good, bad or maybe a possible value ?

thanks in avance
alfixdvd

[Boulder]

The GOP consists of just one I-frame so it looks like the previous GOP ended just before a scene change which occurs right after the one-frame GOP. That means it's perfectly normal.

[alfixdvd]

Thanks

[video_magic]

Hello, HC batch v016 has been working fine up until this one time. Now it crashes without an error message, leaving just an 8kb dbs file.

The avs (avisynth script) that it gets stuck on does play fine in Media Player Classic v6487.
Here is the avs script:
Directshowsource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\worldoftiers.wmv", fps=25, convertfps=true, audio=false)
Lanczos4Resize(352,288)
converttoyv12()

Here is the HC.INI:

[video_magic]

*ASPECT 4:3
*BITRATE 3800
*INTERLACED
*MAXBITRATE 7000
*CLOSEDGOPS
*INFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\worldoftiers.avs
*OUTFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\worldoftiers.m2v
*PROFILE BEST
*WAIT 30

Here is the dbs file attached

[video_magic]

Just got another crash on a different clip - this one a divx3.

Anyway, it crashes with an error message and when I close that error it gives a second error. It does this within seconds of starting the encode.

Here is the avs script:

AVISource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\Solstice_At_Stonehenge_1984.avi", False, fourcc="DIV3")
crop(4, 0, -4, 0)
addborders(0, 2, 0, 16)
converttoyv12

Here is the HC.INI:

*ASPECT 4:3
*BITRATE 3800
*INTERLACED
*MAXBITRATE 7000
*CLOSEDGOPS
*INFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\solstice.avs
*OUTFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\solstice.m2v
*PROFILE BEST
*WAIT 30

Here is the error message:

[video_magic]

When I close that error, I then get this one pop up:

[video_magic]

I just installed the Divx3.11alpha codec and also restarted windows. That did not make any difference, HC still crashed with the same above message just as it had when I only had Divx6 installed. It also doesn't make any difference if I try using different fourcc="..." options. I can play in a player like MPC no problem at all with my avs script.

But if I use 'directshowsource' instead of avisource in my avs then HC works fine without crashing.

Anyway, I hope you are okay with my feedback - HCbatch 0.16 has worked just wonderfully on seveal other clips so far ;)

The ones I have had problems so far are wmv and Divx3 - I think I read that Divx3 was hacked WMV..... anyway

[Prodater64]

When I close that error, I then get this one pop up:


Could you upload your pics with imageshack.us or another similar site?

If you have a "memory could not be read error", you can search the forum.
A thread by me will give you the solution (if you have a non english OS, just tell me it).

Also you can try to close any path and filename between ' " '.

[video_magic]

aye. (yes) that 'image2' of my previous post is the error pop-up that it gives - it has to be approved before it wil show as far as I can tell, I dont know anything else :(

[video_magic]

Got another HC error - this time it is about half-way on pass 2 where it stalls at 1fps and reports underflows and fixing them.

This script works fine in Virtualdub and a media player...
Here follows my avs script, my HC.INI, and a screenshot attached.

c1 = ImageSource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\4dvd\blackholecrop_ready2.bmp", end=987, fps=25)
c2 = ImageSource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\4dvd\catacha_ready2.bmp", end=987, fps=25)
c3 = ImageSource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\4dvd\mask__ready2.bmp", end=987, fps=25)
c4 = ImageSource("D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\4dvd\angel_of_deception_ready2.bmp", end=987, fps=25)
c1+c2+c3+c4
ConvertToYV12()

*ASPECT 4:3
*BITRATE 3800
*INTERLACED
*MAXBITRATE 7000
*CLOSEDGOPS
*INFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\IMAGEschaintest.AVS
*OUTFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\menu4pics.m2v
*PROFILE BEST
*WAIT 30

[Prodater64]

Got another HC error - this time it is about half-way on pass 2 where it stalls at 1fps and reports underflows and fixing them.



If the underflows are fixed, then not problem, not error!

[video_magic]

No but it like gets stuck there.... I mean it slows right down to one frame a second and does hundreds of them!

But all my attachments are still 'pending approval' so you can't yet see the picture :/

[video_magic]

p.s. the avs works fine in another encoder (Quenc) and it plays fine.

I think maybe HC has a few problems with avisynth I'm not sure (I understand I was using a beta of course :) )

[neo squidward]

I also am having problems with HCbatch. My problem is HC just freezes when I use CQ_maxbitrate. Here is the avs:

avisource("c:\shows\nlcv.avi")
converttoyv12

[klicker4546]

Hello there, same problem for me here! I played around with Amnon82's GetCQ and experienced that the HC freezes all over. No matter what kind of source material I use. This occurs especially when I try to encode a SVCD with low bitrates. When I'm doing a prediction for a DVD there's no problem at all.

Think this definetly is not a problem of GetCQ. Any ideas?

I also am having problems with HCbatch. My problem is HC just freezes when I use CQ_maxbitrate. Here is the avs:

avisource("c:\shows\nlcv.avi")
converttoyv12

[t_2]

Sorry about slipping in her with a "dumb" question. I have used HC a few times and really like the quality. Would like to use the newest version but ha.. hummm... can't figure out how to use the batch version....

Could someone direct me to a guide on this subject. I copied an ini file from the .15 release, and added the 4 necessary paramaters, but no luck. Sorry again for this question, I'm sure its a no brainer, but...


T_2

[Ebobtron]

@t_2

Look at page seven of HC’s user manual HC015.pdf. I do not think anything has changed for HC016.


A tip about command line strings; if your path statements include a space ( white space) enclose it with quotation marks.
Example:
C:\My Documents\myfile.avs like this “C:\My Documents\myfile.avs”.
Other wise HCBatch.exe will only see c:\my

Good luck,
Ebobtron
http://members.aol.com/avsfilmcutter

[video_magic]

Sorry about slipping in her with a "dumb" question. I have used HC a few times and really like the quality. Would like to use the newest version but ha.. hummm... can't figure out how to use the batch version....


Hello, you should have a folder somewhere which contains 2 files:

HCbatch_016.exe
HC.INI

Before you encode, you set-up the HC.INI file with all the commands you need for that session. Example, my HC.INI looks like this for the last time I ran it:

*ASPECT 4:3
*BITRATE 3800
*INTERLACED
*MAXBITRATE 7000
*CLOSEDGOPS
*INFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\IMAGEschaintest.AVS
*OUTFILE D:\atmp\Lemmi\lemmidvd\4picsmenutry3.M2V
*PROFILE BEST
*WAIT 30

So, when I click on Hcbatch_016.exe it using those settings for the encode.

[Prodater64]

Sorry about slipping in her with a "dumb" question. I have used HC a few times and really like the quality. Would like to use the newest version but ha.. hummm... can't figure out how to use the batch version....
Could someone direct me to a guide on this subject. I copied an ini file from the .15 release, and added the 4 necessary paramaters, but no luck. Sorry again for this question, I'm sure its a no brainer, but...
T_2

With HC Encoder 0.15 and further complete packages you will find out a pdf file.
There are all you need to know.
But, if you want a easier way try ProCalc ASPA (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96834) for 2 Pass VBR encoding (you still have to edit your hc.ini file and your avs script, but it will help you with the command line, and has a lot of utilities also) and for CQ encodings with prediction GetCQ and HIG (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103137).

[Amnon82]

Look at page seven of HC’s user manual HC015.pdf. I do not think anything has changed for HC016.

Yes there are some changes:

*MATRIX AUTOQ2 got changed to *MATRIX AVAMAT7
*MATRIX AVAMAT6 was added.

I found out that HC shoots over the max bitrate also if you using cq_maxbitrate. So you can't do a SVCD with 2400 as max bitrate. I added a notice to my final release of GetCQ

==================================================

--------------------------------------------
| HCbatch - MPEG2 encoder - rel. 0.16 beta |
--------------------------------------------

input: c:\programme\getcq\avs\gcqprediction.avs
output: h:\out.m2v

--------------------
| encoder settings |
--------------------

profile: FAST
frames: 1 2448
framerate: 25.00
aspect ratio: 4:3
bitrate: NA
max. bitrate Kb/s: 2400
pass: 1 (Constant Quant)
constant Q: 31.000
closed gops: no
VBV check: yes
scene change det.: yes
interlaced: yes, TFF
goplen,B-pic: 12 2
dc_precision: 10
scan method: ALTERNATE
bias: 30
chapter frames: 0
time code: 0 0 0 0
CPU: SSE2
matrix: AVAMAT6

--------------------
| source stats |
--------------------

nr. of frames in source: 2448
width*height: 480*576
fps: 25.00
nr. of frames to encode: 2448
frames to encode: 1 - 2448

---------------------
| encoding - pass 1 |
---------------------

pass 1 encoding time: 0:01:09 (69 s)
average fps: 35.7

------------------
| encoding stats |
------------------

total encoding time: 0:01:09 (69 s)

intra matrix used
8 16 19 22 26 27 29 34
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 35
19 22 26 27 29 34 35 38
22 22 26 27 29 34 35 40
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 50
26 27 29 35 40 48 50 60
27 29 35 40 48 50 60 62

non-intra matrix used
16 20 24 28 32 36 40 44
20 24 28 32 36 40 44 48
24 28 32 36 40 44 48 52
28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56
32 36 40 44 48 52 56 58
36 40 44 48 52 56 58 60
40 44 48 52 56 58 60 62
44 48 52 56 58 60 62 62

nr. of gops: 208
nr. of frames: 2448
nr. of I-frames: 208
nr. of P-frames: 782
nr. of B-frames: 1458
average quant (non linear): 31.000
VBV underflows detected: 0
VBV underflows fixed: 0
minimum bitrate: 612
maximum bitrate: 2859
average bitrate: 866


==================================================
==================================================

--------------------------------------------
| HCbatch - MPEG2 encoder - rel. 0.16 beta |
--------------------------------------------

input: c:\programme\getcq\avs\gcqprediction.avs
output: h:\out.m2v

--------------------
| encoder settings |
--------------------

profile: FAST
frames: 1 2448
framerate: 25.00
aspect ratio: 4:3
bitrate: NA
max. bitrate Kb/s: 2400
pass: 1 (Constant Quant)
constant Q: 1.000
closed gops: no
VBV check: yes
scene change det.: yes
interlaced: yes, TFF
goplen,B-pic: 12 2
dc_precision: 10
scan method: ALTERNATE
bias: 30
chapter frames: 0
time code: 0 0 0 0
CPU: SSE2
matrix: AVAMAT6

--------------------
| source stats |
--------------------

nr. of frames in source: 2448
width*height: 480*576
fps: 25.00
nr. of frames to encode: 2448
frames to encode: 1 - 2448

---------------------
| encoding - pass 1 |
---------------------

pass 1 encoding time: 0:05:14 (314 s)
average fps: 7.8

------------------
| encoding stats |
------------------

total encoding time: 0:05:14 (314 s)

intra matrix used
8 16 19 22 26 27 29 34
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 35
19 22 26 27 29 34 35 38
22 22 26 27 29 34 35 40
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 50
26 27 29 35 40 48 50 60
27 29 35 40 48 50 60 62

non-intra matrix used
16 20 24 28 32 36 40 44
20 24 28 32 36 40 44 48
24 28 32 36 40 44 48 52
28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56
32 36 40 44 48 52 56 58
36 40 44 48 52 56 58 60
40 44 48 52 56 58 60 62
44 48 52 56 58 60 62 62

nr. of gops: 208
nr. of frames: 2448
nr. of I-frames: 208
nr. of P-frames: 782
nr. of B-frames: 1458
average quant (non linear): 10.725
VBV underflows detected: 0
VBV underflows fixed: 0
minimum bitrate: 1962
maximum bitrate: 2859
average bitrate: 2255


==================================================
==================================================

--------------------------------------------
| HCbatch - MPEG2 encoder - rel. 0.16 beta |
--------------------------------------------

input: h:\vts_01_1.d2v.avs
output: h:\out.m2v

--------------------
| encoder settings |
--------------------

profile: FAST
frames: 1 40392
framerate: 25.00
aspect ratio: 4:3
bitrate: NA
max. bitrate Kb/s: 2400
pass: 1 (Constant Quant)
constant Q: 1.000
closed gops: no
VBV check: yes
scene change det.: yes
interlaced: yes, TFF
goplen,B-pic: 12 2
dc_precision: 10
scan method: ALTERNATE
bias: 30
chapter frames: 0
time code: 0 0 0 0
CPU: SSE2
matrix: AVAMAT6

--------------------
| source stats |
--------------------

nr. of frames in source: 40392
width*height: 480*576
fps: 25.00
nr. of frames to encode: 40392
frames to encode: 1 - 40392

---------------------
| encoding - pass 1 |
---------------------

pass 1 encoding time: 1:23:13 (4993 s)
average fps: 8.1

------------------
| encoding stats |
------------------

total encoding time: 1:23:14 (4994 s)

intra matrix used
8 16 19 22 26 27 29 34
16 16 22 24 27 29 34 35
19 22 26 27 29 34 35 38
22 22 26 27 29 34 35 40
22 26 27 29 32 35 40 48
26 27 29 32 35 40 48 50
26 27 29 35 40 48 50 60
27 29 35 40 48 50 60 62

non-intra matrix used
16 20 24 28 32 36 40 44
20 24 28 32 36 40 44 48
24 28 32 36 40 44 48 52
28 32 36 40 44 48 52 56
32 36 40 44 48 52 56 58
36 40 44 48 52 56 58 60
40 44 48 52 56 58 60 62
44 48 52 56 58 60 62 62

nr. of gops: 3398
nr. of frames: 40392
nr. of I-frames: 3398
nr. of P-frames: 10162
nr. of B-frames: 26832
average quant (non linear): 10.291
VBV underflows detected: 0
VBV underflows fixed: 0
minimum bitrate: 1526
maximum bitrate: 4057
average bitrate: 2242


==================================================

[t_2]

Thank you Ebobtron, video_magic, prodater64. I will read the pdf and follow the advice. Didn't know about the "" where there are spaces.

@prodater64

I haven't been following MPEG2 encoders for more than a year now but followed the development of QuEnc for awhile. The problem there was the rate control was broken in ffmpeg. Also, have heard that TMPGenc has some specs issues. I was hoping that HC gives truly compliant MPEG2 streams, but your last post seems to indicate that there are problems here too... Do I follow you correctly?

[Prodater64]

@prodater64

I haven't been following MPEG2 encoders for more than a year now but followed the development of QuEnc for awhile. The problem there was the rate control was broken in ffmpeg. Also, have heard that TMPGenc has some specs issues. I was hoping that HC gives truly compliant MPEG2 streams, but your last post seems to indicate that there are problems here too... Do I follow you correctly?


I don't know from what post mine i could make you think that HC streams are not compliant! (or you quoted me wrongly). Hank315 said that HC Encoder gives compliant streams (in multipass vbr or cq_maxbitrate modes). I didnt investigate the stream structures, only play it in mi unique SAP, so weirdly could i to talk about compliants.

[alfixdvd]

Yes there are some changes:

*MATRIX AUTOQ2 got changed to *MATRIX AVAMAT7
*MATRIX AVAMAT6 was added.



I performed a search at HC015.pdf (2005/06/17) and HC015A.pdf (2005/08/08) and the strings AVAMAT and AVAMAT6 d'ont exists.

AUTOQ2 is the only reference.

IF HC016.PDF document exists and reflect this changes for AVAMAT, where can I get it?

Best regards.

[Revgen]

I performed a search at HC015.pdf (2005/06/17) and HC015A.pdf (2005/08/08) and the strings AVAMAT and AVAMAT6 d'ont exists.

AUTOQ2 is the only reference.

IF HC016.PDF document exists and reflect this changes for AVAMAT, where can I get it?

Best regards.

Hank mentions it here. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=738836#post738836)

[alfixdvd]

Some news about HC016.

- fixes the playback on some strict players (Pioneer)
- pulldown issue is fixed, streams can be pulldowned for PAL and NTSC GOP lengths
- updated 1 pass CQ_MAXBITRATE run, should result in better prediction
- autoq2 matrix replaced with avamat6 and avamat7 (both by Amnon82)

Some of this is already in the latest test releases but not all.


Sure are they all ?

[Ebobtron]

Sure are they all ?

Maybe look here when Hank released 16 and repeated the list.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=738836#post738836



Ebobtron
http://members.aol.com/avsfilmcutter

[hank315]

The GUI for HC016 is finally finished, also some bug fixes for the batch version and the manual is updated.

The GUI version doesn't have a built in encoder anymore, it uses the batch version for encoding.
It has some new features:
- load and save ini files
- preview function
- setting chapter points

Get it at http://hank315.dyndns.org/HC_016.zip

Recommended Avisynth version: 2.5.6a

[katjarella]

Hello hank315, tested the straight final. It is already again the freezing error available. This was noticeable to me already in the beta GUI and evening yesterday by VNC session LigH showed.

Test-Scripts:v1=ImageReader("*path*\MIXVideo.bmp",0,0,25,pixel_type="rgb24")
v2=Loop(v1,18).FadeIn(28,$FF0000)
v3=AlignedSplice(v1,v2,v1)
v3=LanczosResize(v3,720,576)
return ConvertToYV12(v3)
---- OR -----
v1=ImageReader("*path*\MIXVideo.bmp",0,0,25,pixel_type="rgb24")
v2=Loop(v1,18).FadeIn(28,$FF0000)
AlignedSplice(v1,v2,v1)
LanczosResize(720,576)
ConvertToYV12()


It is however not to be verified. Times a Script goes, then again the other one. Times I do not have to press "RESET GUI default", then again. It is to to be moved. Under XP or the HCbatch_016.exe alone functions.

sorry google translate :stupid:

[dragongodz]

katjarella - i tried the second example and all worked fine. can you say what exact settings you used in HC ? also have you updated to avisynth 2.5.6 ?

[neo squidward]

@hank315
I dont know if this is a bug or not but when I load a avisynth script into the GUI it doesnt read the movie info, I can't change the bitrate, everything on the "preview chapters" tab is grayed out, and "encode" button is grayed out.

[feedback]

The GUI for HC016 is finally finished, also some bug fixes for the batch version and the manual is updated.

The GUI version doesn't have a built in encoder anymore, it uses the batch version for encoding.
It has some new features:
- load and save ini files
- preview function
- setting chapter points

Get it at http://hank315.dyndns.org/HC_016.zip

Recommended Avisynth version: 2.5.6a
So this batch 0.16.0.1 version, with the bug fixes, should be fine with DVD-Rebuilder Pro. right? I am presently using HCbatch 0.16.0.0. with RB.

Regards,:)

[MarkP]

@feedback

The .exe in this .zip is still called HCbatch_0.16 but when running the title bar reports HCbatch0.16A beta so not sure about 0.16.0.1 you mention

Used it last night to encode a movie with RB and quality seems very good at first glance

[linx05]

@MarkP

When you ask for version info of HC Encoder Batch from HC Encoder GUI, it returns the 0.16.0.1 version.

[MarkP]

Well that maybe the case, was only saying what the title bar says when batch is running

[Ebobtron]

@ Hank,
Wow, another great improvement.
Love the new gui.

Question:
Are we stuck with the frame offset between AviSynth and HC?
HC's frame 10 is AviSynth's frame 9.

A feature I intend to add to avsFilmCutter's (http://members.aol.com/avsfilmcutter) scene editor is a chapter list generator much like the one in HC's gui. I can offset my list, but it would be nice if I did not have to. What say you?

Feature request:
Because you have the best scene detector I have ever seen. Could you maybe create a non encoding scene detection pass for HC. Which we could then look at and modify as needed.

Again, great work and thank you for it.
Ebobtron

[Amnon82]

@katjarella you can also test my gui called HIG. You can find it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=741367#post741367).
It creates also HC.ini-Files. Hope it helps.

[hank315]

@All
The batch version (0.16.0.1 = HCbatch016A) just didn't made into DVD-RB 1.05 because at the time I mailed it to jdobbs the 1.05 package was already finished.
The 0.16.0.1 version solves an error using *CQ_MAXBITRATE in which it could get stuck.
So for those who want it to use it with DVD-RB just rename and copy/replace it.

@katjarella
I ran the first script and it came out OK with all settings I tried...
Will mail you about it.

@neo squidward
If you check the version with the button "Avisynth info" what does it say?
Also if loading an Avisynth script fails the info window should give the
error message generated by Avisynth, what does that say?

@Ebobtron
Are we stuck with the frame offset between AviSynth and HC?
HC's frame 10 is AviSynth's frame 9.No of course not, I've no objection if the Avisynth guys change it.
Just kidding... But you're right, it would be more compatible with other video apps.
Will be in the next release. (Although I still dislike the idea :( )

Could you maybe create a non encoding scene detection pass for HC. Which we could then look at and modify as needed.That's possible, will PM you about it.

[katjarella]

Google did not certainly translate correctly. And my Translators (LigH, scharfi) cannot be attained.

The HCbatch_016.exe functions. Only the HCGUI_016.exe remains hanging from time to time, if I load a Script. In the GUI see I "AVS file opened" and then still freezes it. Then I must close the Process so long and load different Scripte, until it functions times again. Also the GUI default Settings load , help here not always.

[petermarina]

The latest HC 0.16 also includes 4 versions of DGDecode.dll. Any info on these files?

[Brewskie]

so...why is it that HC 016 greys out the encode button and bitrate area for a simple script such as the following:

directshowsource("clip.avi")
ConvertToYUY2()
convertfps(29.97)
lanczosresize(352,480)

?

any help appreciated

[Ebobtron]

so...why is it that HC 016 greys out the encode button and bitrate area for a simple script such as the following:

directshowsource("clip.avi")
ConvertToYUY2()
convertfps(29.97)
lanczosresize(352,480)

?

any help appreciated "ConvertToYUY2()" HC only supports YV12 input.

Hank is a very nice guy. He gives you a hint instead of a hammer.
as far as your being useless, no help given. ;)

[neo squidward]

Turns out my problem was because I had ConvertToYUY2() in it. Thanks ebobtron

[Ebobtron]

Turns out my problem was because I had ConvertToYUY2() in it. Thanks ebobtronYou are welcome, sir.

@ Brewskie
Your question was not useless, it helped neo squidward too.

@ all
I hope that everyone caught the small ;) detail about HCGUI being a gui that uses HCBatch as the encoder. I remind everyone of this because you can expect the behavior of both to have changed a little. Which prompts the following from me.

Oh Hank,
HCGUI always overwrites HC.ini, not that there is anything wrong with that, I can pass the needed parameters to HCBatch except for one (FRAMES) in the command line arguments, I think it is just FRAMES I would have to go count.
*FRAMES start end enabled encode start to end
*FRAMES start end disabled encode all I am reluctant to offer a solution as I feel like I am picking the nit. Maybe HCGUI could pass an INI to HCBatch instead of overwriting HC.ini, leaving a default INI as a starting point for batch only operation or add -sf -ef to the param list.

Ok, I am done for today.
TTFN

[Mug Funky]

@ Brewskie and neo squidward:

Clouded's "motion" plugin has a function called "blendfps()" which works in yv12 and does the same thing as convertfps(), with a couple of extra options (like "aperture" which controls how "blendy" it is, 1.0 being pretty much what convertfps does, less being jerkier and more being blurrier).

you might want to try that out and see if you get faster encodes with it (theoretically higher quality too, but only chroma is affected and that's barely ever noticable).

[Brewskie]

Thank you Ebobtron and Mug Funky!
:D

[Asmodeus]

ok.
I've tested hc16 on freeBSD through wine, and it works perfecty (as all earlier versions). On my 1.5 celeronM360 laptop I get ~19fps, as an opossite to standalone P4 3.2HT with windoze ~30fps, so not so bad. No bugs for now.
Still waiting for separate fixed quantizer for each frame type I,P,B :) Hope it will be in next version... soon ;)

[hank315]

About the YV12 colorspace, ConvertToYV12(), I just forgot to write the message in the GUI :o , it's detected but not reported...

@Asmodeus
The fixed quantizers for each frame type I,P,B will be in the next release.
It will be implemented as multipication factors for P and B-frames with a range 0.5 - 2.0

@Ebobtron
Will add the frames start-end as parameter in the next release.

[Asmodeus]

@Asmodeus
The fixed quantizers for each frame type I,P,B will be in the next release.
It will be implemented as multipication factors for P and B-frames with a range 0.5 - 2.0
Nice ;)

[Mug Funky]

Feature request:
Because you have the best scene detector I have ever seen. Could you maybe create a non encoding scene detection pass for HC. Which we could then look at and modify as needed.

can i second this?

also, saving the exact GOP structure somewhere could be extremely useful for multiangle encodes - we're usually stuck with a constant structure for multiangles which is usually fine, but if you want to use scene-detection and autogopping on the main angle, and the 2nd angle isn't as important, it could be very handy to be able to encode the 2nd angle with the same structure as the 1st.

of course, this is by no means necessary (i don't know of any encoders that do this), but it may be the kind of feature that would set HC apart from the rest of the field.

[christoofar]

Hello

I still get this memory error message every single time I use HCEnc, which is bundled w/ AVI2DVD. The latest release still gives me this message:

[Prodater64]

Hello

I still get this memory error message every single time I use HCEnc, which is bundled w/ AVI2DVD. The latest release still gives me this message:


I think is the memory could not be read error.
So the issue is still present.
Try http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=703225#post703225

[christoofar]

Prodater-

thanks for yr response! But I am a little unlear on what to do with this "Kill Error" .zip. Do I just run the.exe once & it works from that point on? Do i need to run it each time I start my system? The other link in that thread specific to HCEnc HCEnc error killer no longer works.
Does Hank have any clue in how to eradicate this problem? This one issue prevents this from being an almost perfect encoder. :(

[Prodater64]

Prodater-

thanks for yr response! But I am a little unlear on what to do with this "Kill Error" .zip. Do I just run the.exe once & it works from that point on? Do i need to run it each time I start my system? The other link in that thread specific to HCEnc HCEnc error killer no longer works.
Does Hank have any clue in how to eradicate this problem? This one issue prevents this from being an almost perfect encoder. :(

If you want to forget the problem just run the exe (though a direct access in programs\start folder). The program will run every time windows start, it will be memory resident without take to much resources.
HC will give you the error, but kill-error will close its window, and batch encoding will go ahead.
If you don't want make it run when windows starts, run it just before use HC Encoder.

[christoofar]

Prodater

Could you explain step by step on how to do the direct access thru start folder ?
Sorry, not too sure on how to accomplish .
Again many thanks for yr help on this.

[Prodater64]

Prodater

Could you explain step by step on how to do the direct access thru start folder ?
Sorry, not too sure on how to accomplish .
Again many thanks for yr help on this.

No problem.

1 - Download kill-error_en.zip
2 - Unzip it in any folder you want (i.e. i have it in a program files\misc folder)
3- Drag it (Kill-error_en.exe) with RIGHT mouse button to taskbar, start, programs, start. Once start menu opens , drop inside it the file and select "create direct access" when the popup shows you. Maybe the words are a little bit different as my OS is in spanish, but you will know how to do it for sure.

[christoofar]

Not seeing where this comes into play:
3- Drag it (Kill-error_en.exe) with RIGHT mouse button to taskbar, start, programs, start. Once start menu opens , drop inside it the file and select "create direct access" when the popup shows you.

I was able to right click/drag the .exe onto the Taskbar, but from there, I am not clear on what to do next. Are you saying to leave the .exe in the Taskbar, but to add a shortcut to it in the Startup folder?

[christoofar]

ok..I think that I have it running on startup now, as I did the above ( created shortcut to .exe in taskbar in StartUp folder.) Is it possible to do this , but have the .exe in another location other than the taskbar? It also added two .dlls to my taskbar - kind of cluttered up now. But I can live with it, if it isn't possible... ;)

[Prodater64]

ok..I think that I have it running on startup now, as I did the above ( created shortcut to .exe in taskbar in StartUp folder.) Is it possible to do this , but have the .exe in another location other than the taskbar? It also added two .dlls to my taskbar - kind of cluttered up now. But I can live with it, if it isn't possible... ;)

You almost get it.
If you create a shorcut in start folder, and not put the exe direct in the folder, those dlls will be where you unziped kill-error.exe (a folder for it) and in start folder only will be the shorcut.
Please, any further question in kill-error_en.zip thread as here is a little bit off topic.

@all: Sorry for off topic issue.

[christoofar]

So sorry, thought this was a thread about the newest release of HC encoder ,where problems regarding bugs were discussed. I'd mistakenly considered this memory error msg to be a bug. Apologies to all. :(

[Prodater64]

So sorry, thought this was a thread about the newest release of HC encoder ,where problems regarding bugs were discussed. I'd mistakenly considered this memory error msg to be a bug. Apologies to all. :(

The error could be a bug, but how to install or do use kill-error is not from this topic, but from its own.

[christoofar]

Ok. So is this error msg that I get every single time I use HCenc a rarity among users, or do others have similar prolems? Obviously, once you close down the error message,things continue on as normal. The problem for me is - this totally throws the "unattended" feature of using HC with any conversion apps out the window. It doesn't allow your project to complete unless you go back & click on the close button of the error. I have had this issue since I first tried HCenc. Does the author recognize this as a bug in the app itself, or does it have to do with individual users systems?

[Prodater64]

Ok. So is this error msg that I get every single time I use HCenc a rarity among users, or do others have similar prolems? Obviously, once you close down the error message,things continue on as normal. The problem for me is - this totally throws the "unattended" feature of using HC with any conversion apps out the window. It doesn't allow your project to complete unless you go back & click on the close button of the error. I have had this issue since I first tried HCenc. Does the author recognize this as a bug in the app itself, or does it have to do with individual users systems?

That is something that will have to answer Hank315.
Meanwhile, if you do use kill-error, you will be able to use HC Encoder "unattended". I coded that little app just with that purpose and it works nicely.
A little number of users had that problem also.
Many other apps have same problem also, so maybe is related with C++, XP or another unknown reason.

[christoofar]

OK, then at least I know that it isn't just an issue for me only :)

Although, please see my response to your other thread on the hc killer app.
& thanks for your help!

[Prodater64]

OK, then at least I know that it isn't just an issue for me only :)

Although, please see my response to your other thread on the hc killer app.
& thanks for your help!


Your welcome.

[neo squidward]

I don't know where to put feature requests, I apologize if this isn't the right place.

A good feature would be to have HC apply pulldown when the input is 23.976fps. Right now you have to do pulldown after encode of 23.976fps video.

[DSP8000]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to congratulate to Hank for coding such a great encoder,good on ya :).The new release surely features some improvements & nice GUI,interlaced sources look better as well & the custom matrices are just another bonus.My tests so far show that DV sources look great with AVAMAT6,7 matrices(depends on the desired final bitrate).
One feature that I'd like to see in HC is (interlaced,progressive)croping & resizing,DeNoising based on AVISynth,it would help a lot when processing VHS Sources.There are some tools that do this & of course you can do it with AVISynth manualy.AR correction is a nice feature as well.Since we have preview function in HC would be nice to have these options on board :cool:.
Keep up the good work Hank.

DSP8000

[CobraX]

Which is the latest version of HC Encoder? I downloaded the one on the Doom9 website. When I start HCBatch it says "HCbatch0.16A beta" in the title screen and when I start HCGUI it says "HC016 beta" in the title screen. I thought 0.16.1 was out too? If so where can I get it?

[Pasqui]

@CobraX
You have the latest version available. HCBatch 0.16A is also known as HCBatch 0.16.1.

[Asmodeus]

704x480, 23,976, and HCenc gives me warning that this is not DVD compliant framerate :confused: Of course I can't start encoding (press encode, blink of encoder window, and back to gui).
Help ?
Actualy I must add, that I don't remember to have this error under wine, strange :|

[Prodater64]

704x480, 23,976, and HCenc gives me warning that this is not DVD compliant framerate :confused: Of course I can't start encoding (press encode, blink of encoder window, and back to gui).
Help ?
Actualy I must add, that I don't remember to have this error under wine, strange :|

You wrote 23,976.
Try 23.976.

[christoofar]

Prodater

any new complie of HC_error kill to try yet?

cheers

[Asmodeus]

You wrote 23,976.
Try 23.976.
It's obvious that avisynt accepting "." not "," , it's misswriting. If it was "," then I will get avisynth error, and not hc problem.

[neo squidward]

Usually at the very end of each encode when HCBatch_016.exe is exiting, I get an error. I also get this error sometimes when just clicking "Exit". It is really getting on my nerves because last night I had a batch file running and it was supposed to do a couple movies, but this error pops up after the first movie gets encoded and makes my batch file pause so when I wake up only one movie got encoded. Very frustrating. The error is usually saying cant read/write to some place in memory (I'm not sure the exact error). This and HCGUI is the only programs I get these kind of errors on so I doubt my memory is bad.

[Prodater64]

Usually at the very end of each encode when HCBatch_016.exe is exiting, I get an error. I also get this error sometimes when just clicking "Exit". It is really getting on my nerves because last night I had a batch file running and it was supposed to do a couple movies, but this error pops up after the first movie gets encoded and makes my batch file pause so when I wake up only one movie got encoded. Very frustrating. The error is usually saying cant read/write to some place in memory (I'm not sure the exact error). This and HCGUI is the only programs I get these kind of errors on so I doubt my memory is bad.


That is a bug in HC Encoder (and many other programs) together with Windows XP SP2, and maybe programation language or codecs.

Your workaround ATM is http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=703225#post703225

[neo squidward]

Thanks but the link is down for HC encoder error killer. http://rapidshare.de/files/4338185/HC_Encoder_-_Kill-Error.zip.html

[Prodater64]

That is a bug in HC Encoder (and many other programs) together with Windows XP SP2, and maybe programation language or codecs.

Your workaround ATM is http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=703225#post703225

You are trying to download an old file, go
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=703225#post703225
and download Kill-error_en.zip (i suppose your system is in english language).

Please if you have a question related to Kill-error, post in its own thread, thanks.

@hank315: "memory couldn't be read" error is each day more frequent with HC (and other programs). The problem could be programation language together with mpeg codecs and XP issues. Could you investigate in this aspect.
The problem is not only with HC, i have same problem with programs that manage codecs as Power DVD, Media Player Classic, AVI codec, Camtasia Recorder, etc. There are many factors. It would be nice find out the trully reason of this error.

[dragongodz]

Usually at the very end of each encode when HCBatch_016.exe is exiting, I get an error.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=103195 :D

[neo squidward]

So I guess this means hank315 is aware and the problem will be fixed in the next release. Great news

[ljpp]

Okay, about time for the HC to get an official homepage, and now it does:
http://hcencoder.bitburners.com/

[gilligan2]

Okay, about time for the HC to get an official homepage, and now it does:
http://hcencoder.bitburners.com/

nice. ;) :goodpost:

[FredThompson]

To my eyes, HC gives better results for almost every source except high-speed interlaced for which I prefer the results of ProCoder. Maybe that's an issue of motion detection, maybe not. I have, however, noticed on quite a few inspections that ProCoder does a very good job of keeping the chroma of edge pixels of the 8x8 blocks quite similar. HC doesn't do as good a job. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is something to be mimiced here. If the edge of one block is more similar to the edge of the adjacent block, that should yield a smoother image as seen by human eyes, which are especially attuned to motion and straight edges. Why do I say this? I'd love to see HC outperform ProCoder.

[PlazzTT]

I'm having trouble getting my AviSynth files to load.

I have AviSynth 2.5.6.0 (checked in HC) but when I try to load my AVS file, the words "AVS file opened" flash in the info box for just a sec, and then they disappear and the input file name remains unspecified.

My AVS file is just an AviSource line, loading an AVI. The AVI is encoded with Arithyuv Lossless Codec. The AVS works okay in MPC.

HC can open AVS files with an MPEG2Source line.

EDIT: Also tryed AviSynth 2.5.5, no luck.

[Boulder]

Does it work with DirectShowSource? I don't know if Arithyuv has a DirectShow decoder though. I've sometimes had problems opening files encoded with ffdshow's mjpeg codec with AVISource, but with DSS they work just fine.

[Ebobtron]

@PlazzTT
HC can open AVS files with an MPEG2Source line.Sure it works when using Mpeg2Source in your scripts as most mpg sources result in a YV12 color space output from AviSynth.
Many Avi Sources will be other than YV12 which can be the problem because HC only takes AviSynth scripts that output YV12
Put info() in your AviSource scripts, it will tell you what your script is outputting.
Use ConvertToYV12() to convert before HC
ATM it appears that HC is trapping the incorrect input file but doesn't tell us about it, just ignores it.

http://members.aol.com/avsfilmcutter
If you where using FilmCutter you could just hit F8 to see your script output properties. You can even test your script for proper ColorSpace when you launch your encoder from FilmCutter. <- shamless plug, sorry

[PlazzTT]

Excellent, thanks. DirectShowSource works, I'm guessing AviSource with ConvertToYV12() will too.

[Ebobtron]

Excellent, thanks. DirectShowSource works, I'm guessing AviSource with ConvertToYV12() will too.
I should recuse myself from any comments about DirectShow and DirectShowSource. But to speak about “Arithyuv” which is a VideoForWindows codec, I believe you would be far better off using AviSource.

In order for DSS to output YV12 when using a clip encoded as YUY2, DSS in using a color space conversion filter which you may not have any control over. You do not need DSS to input the source, so you again a little speed, much better seeking. And IMHO something that will work next month as it does this month.

Good luck

[Boulder]

You can force DirectShowSource to output the colorspace you want. If you know that the original colorspace is YUY2, just use the parameter pixel_type="YUY2".

As I was unsure whether the codec contains YV12 stuff or not, I suggested trying DSS;) In fact, AVISource will always output YV12 first if the codec supports outputting it. That's something you need to remember for example when dealing with YUY2 capture files.

[Mug Funky]

about ffdshow, avisource and HC:

i find anything that ff_vfw.dll decodes crashes HC on opening. with directshowsource it doesn't. strange.

i've tried 3 ffdshow builds, and several different codecs within ffdshow and all die. but with directshowsource it's fine... peculiar.

[Mug Funky]

wee! i just discovered this morning that if you encode off the network and the computer your files are on crashes, HC keeps patiently waiting until that machine is back, and then continues encoding! that's very cool :)

[scraper]

Hi Hank,

Just noticed something in the log-file while fooling around:
I was encoding a 23.976fps source with a width*height of 720*576.

Here's part of the log:

--------------------
| source stats |
--------------------

nr. of frames in source: 127690
width*height: 720*480
fps: 23.98

:confused: Is width*height assumed, base on fps?

See you, Jan Peter

[Rippraff]

23.976fps
This is NTSC
and this 720*576is PAL.

720*480 is the correct resolution for NTSC.

Cu Rippraff

[ron spencer]

I just wanted to say that this encoder has been doing a superb job for me with my interlaced hi-8 home movies....slow on my pIII 866 but well worth the overnight wait!!!! I can't wait to see new versions!!!!

[Boulder]

This is NTSC
and this is PAL.

720*480 is the correct resolution for NTSC.

Cu Rippraff
Maybe he wants to use DGPulldown and do a 23.976->25fps pulldown for NTSC->PAL conversion? That way he can use the original audio track. (However, there is a slight jitter introduced to the video with such conversion)

[Ebobtron]

scraper,Is width*height assumed, base on fps?
No. Width, height and fps are provided by the source. If your encoded m2v is the width, height and fps that you expected the problem is, I'm sure in the log generation.
:goodpost:
I is sure Hank will fix.

As for the rest ???
23.976fps is NTSB Film.

[scraper]

Hi guys,

sorry for the late reply... buzy few days.
I was in fact trying to use dgpulldown to do a ntsc > pal conversion. So i had to use that combination of weirdness...
Which introduced another thing:
When i muxed it all together, muxman complained about a buffer underflow being detected. Shouldn't that have been detected by HC?

JP

[smok3]

iam planning to encode certain files using q5 + dvd compliance bitrate limiter, however iam seeing some weird seeking problems using either mplayer or powerdvd (lenght is changing in powerdvd, mplayer cannot decide where it is also - looking at the osd)

virtualdubmod seems to open them fine, also no problems with mpc.

ini file is simply:
*MAXBITRATE 8000
*FRAMES 1 15000
*ASPECT 4:3
*CQ_MAXBITRATE 5.000
*MATRIX mpeg

[Mug Funky]

@ scraper:

it might just play fine anyway... :)

different programs have different ways of measuring bitrate, as do different playback devices. HC (i think) measures bitrate GOP wise - it measures bits/sec for each GOP, but i'm not aware if it takes other GOPs into account. anyway, it should be fine, but burn a RW and check in a standalone or two :)